33 replies to this topic

[KevinR]

The Metronet related maintenance worker's strike seems to have closed down the Metropolitan underground service this evening (and I assume the next few days). In central London this evening the underground stations I walked past all had their entrances sealed and manned by striking staff. I managed to get home without problem on the 19:25 Chiltern Line diesel which was on time, though extremely crowded.

Assuming the strike is still on Tuesday to Thursday as currently scheduled, I am hoping to travel on the Chiltern service and walk once I get to central London. I am however worried about getting stranded in London with no way back to Amersham. It occurred to me that the Chiltern service shares infrastructure with the Metropolitan line and I vaguely remember reading that Metronet are responsible for managing this track/signalling on behalf of the Chiltern line between Amersham and Marylebone. Does anyone know what the risk is that the Chiltern service could be impacted by the strike? Could track/signalling issues between Amersham and Marylebone prevent the Chiltern Service running and potentially leave Amersham commuters stranded in London?

[Matthew (MPJ/Admin)]

My understanding is that if there is a problem with the track / signals / trains, then it won't be fixed during the strike.

The Chiltern services uses LUL track between harrow and Amersham, so fi there is a problem on this track, Chiltern won't run.

However, you can always use the Chiltern service out to Beaconsfield and Wycombe and then hopefully get a lift to and from Amersham, or the Silverlink service from Euston to Berko or Hemel

The Jubilee, Northern and Pic lines should run OK as they are no Metronet lines

[hyposmurf]

I contacted them earlier today (Chiltern) they said their services would be running as normal.But as I expect its likely that as LUL are on strike you maybe able to watch your anticipated Chiltern Line train pass you as you sit behind closed station doors.Happened before Chesham and Amersham stations closed but Chiltern line trains running through.

[Fran]

I expect its likely that as LUL are on strike you maybe able to watch your anticipated Chiltern Line train pass you as you sit behind closed station doors.Happened before Chesham and Amersham stations closed but Chiltern line trains running through.

So drive to Great Miss and catch Chiltern from there?

[MetMainMan]

I contacted them earlier today (Chiltern) they said their services would be running as normal.But as I expect its likely that as LUL are on strike you maybe able to watch your anticipated Chiltern Line train pass you as you sit behind closed station doors.Happened before Chesham and Amersham stations closed but Chiltern line trains running through.

LUL arent on strike!

Chiltern will stop, so long as they are not full. With the exception of Rickmansworth which will be closed until 10am. Some stations may well be un-staffed if staff cannot get in to work, in which case no information will be available (practice for next year).
Also Chiltern's Train Drivers may later on refuse to drive over LU tracks once the Safety Cert runs out.
Should a failure occur, trains will run though under failure conditions. This can on the Met line add 30-60 minutes to a journey.

When I used to be on in similar shutdowns, I would arrange Ticket Acceptance for the lines via Tring and Beaconsfield, so this may be in operation. I would tell you if this was happening, but TfL are doing their usual "Tell You At The Station and Not Before" thing!

[hyposmurf]

LUL arent on strike!

OK RMT.

I would tell you if this was happening, but TfL are doing their usual "Tell You At The Station and Not Before" thing!

They were doing their usual we have no information and are unable to tell you at this time.Thanks for your wonderfull help!
Cost me £10.20 return to get from Berko to Hatch End,then my Oyster on top for the rest of my journey to Kenton.Add to that two buses and I'm looking at £18-20 a day instead of £8.I'm also menat to stop mid way through my journey at hatch end to stamp my oyster card and then get another train from there to Kenton.Could get as lift to Great Miss but the traffic at that time of the morning would be a nightmare,with the schools and extra traffic due to the strike.
From the Guardian website:
Both the mayor and the direct employers, the administrator and Metronet, have given the trade unions clear written assurances that meet all their concerns, namely that there will be no job cuts or transfers as a result of the collapse of Metronet and no loss of pensions now or at any time in the future. London Underground, Metronet, the administrator and Acas all yesterday asked Bob Crow [the RMT general secretary] what further assurances the RMT is seeking. There has been no response."
Seems like a complete mess!

[Eaton]

My husband caught the 6.27am Chiltern Turbo this morning arriving at Marylebone he decided to get a bus (the 205 I think) to Moorgate, as it's either that or a 5ish mile walk. Even at just after 7am he watched two buses go past that were so full they didn't stop. Eventually after 20 minutes he and 3 others who had to get to the City shared a cab.

He's going to leave at 4pm so we'll see how long it takes him to get home!

As to why they are on strike if they've been given written assurances regarding their concerns, one can only assume that they felt like a few days standing on a picket line, watching and enjoying the misery on the ordinary commuter's faces as they struggle to get to or home from work.

[hyposmurf]

Did your husband go from Amersham this morning?Just wondering if it is likely to be open tomorrow

[Eaton]

Did your husband go from Amersham this morning?Just wondering if it is likely to be open tomorrow

Yes he left from Amersham and hopefully he'll return to Amersham this evening!!

[hyposmurf]

Thanks I'll try that route then tomorrow,rather than my awfull berko route today.

[147]

As to why they are on strike if they've been given written assurances regarding their concerns, one can only assume that they felt like a few days standing on a picket line, watching and enjoying the misery on the ordinary commuter's faces as they struggle to get to or home from work.
[/quote]


When services do begin to run again, perhaps your husband and all the other commuters who have been inconvenienced would like to remember that every Metropolitan Line driver arrived at work at Neasden & Rickmansworth prepared to drive trains this morning.
The dispute has nothing to do with drivers, but as usual the media are saying we are refusing to work on safety grounds. It was TFL or the HMRI who pulled the plug yesterday and as usual, we suffer from the RMT's actions.

[KevinR]

Did your husband go from Amersham this morning?Just wondering if it is likely to be open tomorrow

I got the 07:38 Chiltern diesel direct from Amersham to Marylebone this morning. It was arrived on time and reached it's destination on time. It was busier than usual but everyone got a seat, so OK.

After MetMainMan's comments earlier about the train travelling slower in the event of track issues I kept a close eye open. It did run very slowly for a short while after Harrow and before Marylebone, but still arrived OK. From what Matthew said earlier this is not part of the Amersham to Harrow Metronet managed section! - does that mean that Chiltern are responsible for the maintenance of this section of track?

I'm getting the 17:27 this evening - I'll post later to let everyone know how it went.

[MetMainMan]

OK RMT.

RMT Members in Metronet You Mean!

After MetManMain's comments earlier about the train travelling slower in the event of track issues I kept a close eye open. It did run very slowly for a short while after Harrow and before Marylebone, but still arrived OK. From what Matthew said earlier this is not part of the Amersham to Harrow Metronet managed section! - does that mean that Chiltern are responsible for the maintenance of this section of track?

I meant if there is a Signal Failure of somesorts, it will take the usual ages to get through.

LUL (well the Infraco, Metronet) look after the section just by Northwick Park to just past the foot crossing north of Amersham.

As an aside, if there are these big problems on the north Met, ask the Station Supervisor (nicely!) if Ticket Acceptance has been arranged on the Chiltern High Wychombe branch and the Silverlink via Tring, most of the times the TOCs will agree to it. If that is of any use to you!

And please be nice to the Met station staff, they are the best bunch on the network (and no I have never worked there )

[Eaton]

When services do begin to run again, perhaps your husband and all the other commuters who have been inconvenienced would like to remember that every Metropolitan Line driver arrived at work at Neasden & Rickmansworth prepared to drive trains this morning.
The dispute has nothing to do with drivers, but as usual the media are saying we are refusing to work on safety grounds. It was TFL or the HMRI who pulled the plug yesterday and as usual, we suffer from the RMT's actions.

Firstly, perhaps you can explain why if the dispute is not to do with drivers, they are on strike and not driving the trains.
Secondly if the drivers are suffering from RMT's actions then why don't the drivers vote to change their unions.
Thirdly, I'm quite sure that my husband and most other commuters have no problems with strikes if they are caused by safety concerns.

On another point, my husband left work at 4.20pm and walked in the door at 7.50pm!!

[MetMainMan]

Firstly, perhaps you can explain why if the dispute is not to do with drivers, they are on strike and not driving the trains.
Secondly if the drivers are suffering from RMT's actions then why don't the drivers vote to change their unions.
Thirdly, I'm quite sure that my husband and most other commuters have no problems with strikes if they are caused by safety concerns.

On another point, my husband left work at 4.20pm and walked in the door at 7.50pm!!

Put simply, there are no staff to prepare and offer the trains for service, and carry out the daily security and safety checks. This is set out in the Railway Safety Case, which is a document that every Railway in the UK must have. That is why Chiltern can still run their trains.

Train Operators can change union at any time. I think there is probably an ASLEF majority on the Met.

[KevinR]

I caught the 19:27 Chiltern Marylebone to Amersham as planned. It ran to schedule and had no noticeable delays so thank you Chiltern Railways. It was however packed to overflowing with standing passengers, many of whom got off at Harrow (I assume many of these people would normally take the Met Line). The train was so full that I suspect that that those arriving in the last 3 or 4 minutes were unable to get on the train.

Out of interest does anyone know why it is OK for the Chiltern trains to run over this track whereas the Met trains cannot? Is it because Metronet are responsible for OK'ing the safety of the Metropolitan trains whereas the Chiltern line engineers are still looking after the Chiltern trains?

[147]

The RMT is not the drivers union, ASLEF is the drivers union.
The few Met drivers who are in the RMT are probably in it because they were previously station staff and the subs are a third of that of ASLEF.

[hyposmurf]

So it looks as if Amersham station will be open tomorrow or does anyone know any different?

[Matthew (MPJ/Admin)]

Firstly, perhaps you can explain why if the dispute is not to do with drivers, they are on strike and not driving the trains.

I believe it is because the Metronet related staff are not working, thus the trains are not serviced / checked and TFL won't then allow them to be driven.

[hyposmurf]

My understanding of the problem is very limited however they wish to have heir jobs & pensions safegaurded etc.But if how can they expect this if the company Metronet previously went belly up.Surely when a bid gets excepted the first area the successfull take over company will look at is cutting inefficiencies within the company,whether that be equipment,duties or staff.Why keep a system going if its inefficient just to keep people in jobs, as nice as it might be thats just not business.If another company in another industry went belly up I doubt youd have the same thing happening, with employees expecting to have their jobs secured.

[Fran]

they wish to have heir jobs & pensions safegaurded etc.But if how can they expect this if the company Metronet previously went belly up.

Surely the pensions should be protected whatever happens to the company (remember Maxwell)? Jobs are a different matter.

[Weezer]

There seems to be a large amount of confusion over these strikes, with who is and who isn't striking and why. Whether RMT staff are justified in striking or not (for the record I believe they aren't) I am not looking to discuss here. But hopefully people who post here subsequently will be able to base their opinions on the following facts:

1. London Underground (a public sector company) manage staff who operate the train service and run the stations.

2. Metronet (a privatised company) manage the staff who maintain the track, signalling and trains.

3. Staff in the RMT union who work for Metronet ARE on strike.

4. Staff who work for London Underground are NOT on strike. (There may be some areas where LU staff are refusing to cross picket lines but I have not heard of any.)

5. Staff who work for London Underground are due to report for duty as normal. However, because Metronet staff are on strike, trains are not being cleaned or maintained, nor is track and signalling going to be repaired in the event of a failure. As trains are not likely to be fit for public service because Metronet staff are on strike, no train service can safely operate.

6. Chiltern Railways are continuing to run a train service because their maintenance staff are not on strike and trains are therefore available to operate as usual. However, if a signalling or track based failure occurs on the Metropolitan Line between Harrow and Amersham, the Chiltern service will more than likely be suspended too because Metronet maintain the track between these stations. So far, this has not happened. Additionally, if a track or signalling failure occurs north of Amersham or south of Harrow, it is for Network Rail and NOT Metronet to fix as they do not maintain those sections of line.

7. I believe pointwork has been secured for through running and signals set to clear automatically for Chiltern trains to minimise the chance of a failure happening whilst Metronet staff are on strike and therefore scuppering the service there is. (Similar arrangements exist for the Piccadilly line to enable trains to continue to operate to Rayners Lane).

Hopefully this post clarifies some of the issues previously raised.

[a t o m i c]

As to why they are on strike if they've been given written assurances regarding their concerns, one can only assume that they felt like a few days standing on a picket line, watching and enjoying the misery on the ordinary commuter's faces as they struggle to get to or home from work.

The idiocy is that they don't even need those 'written assurances' - employment law already GUARANTEES them EXACTLY what they're asking for!

Is there no way that TfL can directly sue the RMT for loss of revenue?

I was an hour late to work today + £8 congestion charge. What fun.

I hope Bob Crow swallows his tongue as he slumbers under his eiderdown tonight.

[MetMainMan]

The current Action has been Suspended pending further talks. Depending on them, next week's may also be suspended.

However, on some lines, don't expect anywhere near a full service this morning, as a number of checks by both Metronet and LUL need to be made first.

[KevinR]

Hopefully this post clarifies some of the issues previously raised.

Thanks Weezer that clarifies things for me.

[hyposmurf]

Thanks Weezer that clarifies things for me.

Me to and the fact its been supsended is great news, just hope they dont resume the strike soon.

[Weezer]

Me to and the fact its been supsended is great news, just hope they dont resume the strike soon.

No problem. Glad to have been of service. It's good news that the strike has been suspended. I expect that things will start to improve as the day goes on.

[Tallguy]

For the second day running I went in on the Chiltern after a farce yesterday try9ing to get the Picc etc. Watched a punch up for a cab by Marylebone then walked down to Baker Street and hailed a cab in the street without a problem. Hopefully back on the Met from Uxbridge tomorrow.

[Metman]

Very glad the strike was called off! There is one planned for next week tho! I can understand why the members are striking even if I'm not happy about it! I'm sure there will be pension and maybe job cuts. The money just isn't there anymore. In fact, I heard the Met extension to Barking has been canned due to lack of funds-ie they can't afford the extra trains to enable the extension!

[hyposmurf]

Surely by striking they are depleting funding for their employment and future pensions anyway.I really hope this doenst go on next week I'm sure many peoples patience has now already been tested.