113 replies to this topic

[K&P]

Husband has had, for the last two mornings, lifts to Beckie from good samaritans. What a great thing!

Last night, Amersham was open.

Any news on tonight?

Kx

[barney]

I will attempt to keep this civil and not personal which is difficult considering thousands of us have had ridiculous journeys over the last few days.

1. The RMT do this under their leader simply to improve their terms and conditions.
2. They will not sign upto a 5 year pay deal because they are determined to milk the Olympics to the hilt.
3. The people that striked do not care in the slightest about the inconvenience it causes the millions of people as long as they bully an extra few hundred pounds a year, better holiday etc. Do not be fooled by any wrapping around safety. Suck strikes effect eveybody and in these difficult times could place such people as the newspaper man at Amersham in difficulty. The next time any of the workers try and justify it please take a second to think about the huge knock on effect it has.
4. I personally hope Boris has the botle to take the RMT on once and for all because if we are to be a progressive country we cannot be allowed to be bullied by a group of people who think that by using the very word redundancy is enough to bring London to a halt.
5. I really hope the very selfish staff that did strike take some time to reflect and be honest to themselves-

its al about your pay.

well done to the staff that did turn up you deserve a big pat on the back for refusing to give in to the bullies.

[147]

If Ken Livingstone had still been mayor he would of gone to court and had the strike deemed illeagle, something tells me this is political and it will only get worse.

[PaulEden]

If Ken Livingstone had still been mayor he would of gone to court and had the strike deemed illeagle, something tells me this is political and it will only get worse.

And to think they used to call him Red Ken.

[147]

I think I would pay to see Boris and Bob Crow in a head to head debate, as neither of them can express themselves in an adult manner.

[roob_the_doob]

I will attempt to keep this civil and not personal which is difficult considering thousands of us have had ridiculous journeys over the last few days.

...

5. I really hope the very selfish staff that did strike take some time to reflect and be honest to themselves-

In what way was this not personal, given that one of our contributors was on strike?

its al about your pay.

Wrong. The issue of pay was resolved before the strike took place, with two alternative pay deals (one 2 year and one 4 year) to be put to union members for a vote. The strike went ahead because of a disagreement on the issue of compulsory redundancies.

And if you're worried about pay, striking and giving up approx 1% of your annual income seems an odd way to go about it.

well done to the staff that did turn up you deserve a big pat on the back for refusing to give in to the bullies.

When there has been a ballot of members which was overwhemingly in favour of a strike, there's no "well done" about it. What is the point in a ballot if you ignore the result? Who are these "bullies"? I sincerely hope that those who ignored the ballot didn't vote in the first place, since that would make them hypocrites.

The strike has been highly inconvenient for me, but I see no reason why I should be blaming RMT members any more than TfL management. And I'm certainly not going to congratulate anyone for diminishing the effectiveness of one of their union's bargaining tools. They'll probably feel rather stupid if they end up being made compulsorily redundant.

If Ken Livingstone had still been mayor he would of gone to court and had the strike deemed illeagle, something tells me this is political and it will only get worse.

If KL was mayor I suspect there wouldn't have been brinkmanship of the sort displayed this week. There have been several threatened strikes over the past few years, but the issues were usually resolved in good time.

It may be political, but if so it's a question of Boris's incompetence. When answering questions, he didn't appear to understand the first thing about the issues. Like him or loathe him, you could never say that KL didn't know what was going on.

[funkydoodycool]

Thanks roob, I don't need to say anything now!

[K&P]

Suck strikes effect eveybody and in these difficult times could place such people as the newspaper man at Amersham in difficulty. The next time any of the workers try and justify it please take a second to think about the huge knock on effect it has.

Yes, that's the power of the threat of a strike, I guess - it does have a knock on effect. In this case, negotiation might have stopped that knock on effect.

Whether or not we support every strike action undertaken, I believe we have a duty to support workers' rights to strike - accepting that sometimes a strike may inconvenience us.

K

[David P]

I believe we have a duty to support workers' rights to strike

If it's the employee's right to decide not to work then it is equally the employer's right to decide not to employ.

[Alan]

If Ken Livingstone had still been mayor he would of gone to court and had the strike deemed illeagle, something tells me this is political and it will only get worse.

2012 is coming, do you think they will let it happen then?

[147]

2012 is coming, do you think they will let it happen then?

The Aussies have set a precedent, they got a whole Aus dollar an hour extra for the month that the Olympics were in town.

[chesham321]

The Aussies have set a precedent, they got a whole Aus dollar an hour extra for the month that the Olympics were in town.

Nobody is going to let the RMT hold the olympics to ransom, I would expect to see a law passed that prevented all essential public service staff from strikeing. As allready applies to the Police (sworn officers only)

The sooner the better!

As I said before, the big problem with strikes is all of the innocent people that it affects, and for that reason I could never support.

[147]

Nobody is going to let the RMT hold the olympics to ransom, I would expect to see a law passed that prevented all essential public service staff from strikeing. As allready applies to the Police (sworn officers only)

The sooner the better!

As I said before, the big problem with strikes is all of the innocent people that it affects, and for that reason I could never support.

I don't have a problem with doing what I am employed to do, my problem arrises when the company want to change the parameters for special events with no recompense. Foe example the tube ran all night for the millenium and it now does so every year.

[chesham321]

I don't have a problem with doing what I am employed to do, my problem arrises when the company want to change the parameters for special events with no recompense. Foe example the tube ran all night for the millenium and it now does so every year.

Thats what happens in business, i'm afraid its called moveing with the times!

Many years ago I used to work for Marks and Spencer, You used to get double time on a Sunday (I believe Tesco was the same) But as demands in the consumer market changed so did our pay and conditions (as the company could simply not afford to keep paying double time), Our existing contracts were replaced with 12 weeks notice, and gone forever was the premium, I think its time and a 1/3rd now.

Every employee is employed to move in time with the business for which they are employed, and if the employee dosn't like it then they know what they can do.

I chose to leave Marks and Spencer because I didn't "beleive" any more.

And some of the older staff could still remember closing early on a Wednesday, and half day on a Saturday.........

[147]

Thats what happens in business, i'm afraid its called moveing with the times!

Many years ago I used to work for Marks and Spencer, You used to get double time on a Sunday (I believe Tesco was the same) But as demands in the consumer market changed so did our pay and conditions (as the company could simply not afford to keep paying double time), Our existing contracts were replaced with 12 weeks notice, and gone forever was the premium, I think its time and a 1/3rd now.

Every employee is employed to move in time with the business for which they are employed, and if the employee dosn't like it then they know what they can do.

I chose to leave Marks and Spencer because I didn't "beleive" any more.

And some of the older staff could still remember closing early on a Wednesday, and half day on a Saturday.........

And thats why we have unions to get us something in return.

[chesham321]

And thats why we have unions to get us something in return.

Yes, its called GREED

If we all wanted something in return the world would be an even worse place than it is now!

Anyway, whens the next strike.... oh no I remember the RMT members can only afford to do a maximum of one , two day strike a month......., because of the fact that they earn so much allready, that they would be unable to afford their mortgage payments!

Face it, the RMT have lost the support of the public.... how many people on this forum have actully supported the strike?? And are trying to make Hay while a week goverment reigns!

It was interesting to read however that the technology is in place allready to run most of the tube like the DLR..... now that would be interesting!!

Yes the unions do rule, they rule their workers destiny, if they push it to far the same will happen as happened to the miners...... and do the RMT realy want that????

I actully think they do, because Brown and CO are so weak........

[roob_the_doob]

Yes, its called GREED

Let's restate. The strike in question was not about pay. Nothing to do with GREED.

Do we really need to re-fight the battles of the 70s and 80s (and those of the 1870s and 1880s too)? Neanderthal, blinkered attitudes, typified by comments about GREED, are precisely what causes poor industrial relations in the first place.

[MarkD]

Let's restate. The strike in question was not about pay. Nothing to do with GREED.

Do we really need to re-fight the battles of the 70s and 80s (and those of the 1870s and 1880s too)? Neanderthal, blinkered attitudes, typified by comments about GREED, are precisely what causes poor industrial relations in the first place.

Sounds like we could be in for battles in other sectors, regardless of hoy the LUL talks go - according to the beeb anyway... http://news.bbc.co.u...ess/8102121.stm

This could lead to "guerrilla war" in the workplace, characterised by repeated strike action, he said.

[funkydoodycool]

Yes, its called GREED

As Roob states, its nothing to do with pay. Its all to do with longterm security, which is something we all want and need right now. We have the power to stand up and fight for it, and so we are. Just as anyone else who could, would.

Anyway, whens the next strike.... oh no I remember the RMT members can only afford to do a maximum of one , two day strike a month......., because of the fact that they earn so much allready, that they would be unable to afford their mortgage payments!

I don't earn that much at all. In fact the only reason I no longer live in my gran's house and have a car of my own is that I have a girlfriend, who also works. Its her salary, and myself sacrificing my spending money, that has to fill the gap of my lost pay this month. The reason more than two days' strike becomes too expensive is that I work 20 days out of every four week pay period - two days is 10% lost pay. If you earn £1 or £100 an hour, 10% is a huge chunk.

Face it, the RMT have lost the support of the public.... how many people on this forum have actully supported the strike??

It is only on the internet forums that I have encountered such negative comments. On the picket lines and at the station (as I've previously stated) all but a couple of people HAVE been supportive, or in the very least understanding. Possibly something to do with us standing there handing out information and providing assistance, despite the fact we were at the time not being paid to do so. Perhaps its that we love our jobs, and actually find satisfaction in helping people, contrary to the opposite that is thought of us. If I didn't love my job, I would be looking elsewhere.

[chesham321]

As Roob states, its nothing to do with pay. Its all to do with longterm security, which is something we all want and need right now. We have the power to stand up and fight for it, and so we are. Just as anyone else who could, would.

So a strike that started over pay, suddenly turned into something different? Name one job that Gaurentees long term security??

I don't earn that much at all. In fact the only reason I no longer live in my gran's house and have a car of my own is that I have a girlfriend, who also works. Its her salary, and myself sacrificing my spending money, that has to fill the gap of my lost pay this month. The reason more than two days' strike becomes too expensive is that I work 20 days out of every four week pay period - two days is 10% lost pay. If you earn £1 or £100 an hour, 10% is a huge chunk.

But if the union truly beleived in their cause, they would "go all out", you see it is all about money.


It is only on the internet forums that I have encountered such negative comments. On the picket lines and at the station (as I've previously stated) all but a couple of people HAVE been supportive, or in the very least understanding. Possibly something to do with us standing there handing out information and providing assistance, despite the fact we were at the time not being paid to do so. Perhaps its that we love our jobs, and actually find satisfaction in helping people, contrary to the opposite that is thought of us. If I didn't love my job, I would be looking elsewhere.

Yes but not at 5.30 in the morning, or later at night!

I have always said however that I do find 99.9% of the tube staff helpfull, But I still cannot support strikes, A total ban as i said earlier would be the best thing!

[funkydoodycool]

I appreciate your comment about going all out, and concerning the money there. Its only half the story though - what do you do if that means that you can no longer afford your rent, bills etc, which are going up all the time. A happy medium has to be found.

Unfortunately this world revolves on a core of money, which means no-one can do anything without being accused of doing it for money. Think about how much Tube Fares have gone up in recent years. In my 3 1/2 years herethe 1-9 travelcard has gone up to £9.00. It went up by 10% this January alone. Thats a heck of a rise for something that many suggest is quite expensive already, and none of it has gone to the staff that make it possible - its all for the shareholders and investors.

I'll say again - how can a strike be about money, when the staff involved are losing more by striking than any payrise they're supposedly after? Every 2 days striked amounts more or less to a 1% pay rise.

If there were a peaceable alternative to striking, I'd be more than up for it. At the moment though I haven't seen any alternative that would work. Those that suggest strikes should be outlawed don't offer alternatives.

As for the issue of "Name one job that Gaurentees long term security" don't you see that as a problem? Whatever happened to "working to live"? Everyone these days seems to be "living to work". There's no other way to face the fact that money is central to our society, and things are getting increasingly desperate, except for those lucky few who are above financial concerns. Surely the issue is that it shouldn't be this way - people are too quick to accept that "that's just the way it is".

[147]

I would just love somebody from the media to shadow an underground employee for 4 weeks, be they station staff or drivers, and then say that we don't earn our pay.

[PaulEden]

A total ban as i said earlier would be the best thing!

[Weezer]

This thread is getting quite tiresome, what with the bickering going on...and I am resolutely sitting on the fence as to the rights, wrongs and maybes.

But in an Amersham context, it has to be said, I managed to get a train to/from there during the strike days. Yes there were some delays, but on the plus-side, it was generally quieter and luckily for us at the end of the Met, some form of service ran to London from our area, even if not throughout the whole 48 hours. For that we should be at least slightly grateful surely? Other areas in London weren't so lucky unfortunately, yet we still moan. Whilst I certainly don't agree with the RMT holding the capital (or LU for that matter) to ransom, the fact is they didn't completely get their way with bringing everything to a grinding halt, ergo there must have been some LU staff who did not strike and they must surely be praised for that.

But whether LU staff are well paid or not, the fact is a mechanism (law) is still in place in 2009 for this sort of industrial action to take place. So I'm sure any other public body capable of striking this way for better conditions would do the same if they felt they would get a result positive to them. It's just that we don't see it day to day in a way an Underground strike does affect us. And for that matter I didn't see any member of the current government condemn the Underground strike or call for the removal of the union's power by statute. Maybe they are too afraid of losing the union's patronage! Until strikes like this are banned by law they may well happen from time to time so unfortunately it's something we will have to accept as possibly happening. To that end maybe it's the government's fault for allowing it to happen!