15 replies to this topic

[Fran]

Hurrah! Tesco will replace grammatically incorrect signs saying "10 items or less".
But it's a bit of a cop out; instead of using the correct "10 items or fewer", they will use "up to 10 items".
Nevertheless, progress of a sort.

I know most people won't mind either way, but I'm pleased and presume David P will be too.

For the record, you should use "fewer" for individual things that could be counted and "less" for everything else that is measured in other ways, e.g. "less rice" or "fewer grains of rice".

See BBC story.

[Alan]

Hurrah! Tesco will replace grammatically incorrect signs saying "10 items or less".
But it's a bit of a cop out; instead of using the correct "10 items or fewer", they will use "up to 10 items".
Nevertheless, progress of a sort.

I know most people won't mind either way, but I'm pleased and presume David P will be too.

For the record, you should use "fewer" for individual things that could be counted and "less" for everything else that is measured in other ways, e.g. "less rice" or "fewer grains of rice".

See BBC story.

My brain hurts, this is much to difficult

[David P]

See BBC story.

'Pot', 'kettle' and 'black' spring to mind.

[Fran]

I thought the story rang a bell... M&S corrected a similar error at least two and a half years ago (see Guardian article), although for a while there was at least one of their stores that apparently had both signs at the same time:

At the Paisley branch of Marks and Spencer two express queues are for "five items or less" and one is for "five items or fewer". Does it make a difference whether or not you stand in the 'grammatical' queue?

(From an interesting BBC comments page about "Talking Proper".)

[PaulEden]

I complained to the customer services manager about this at Christmas. He understood it after I explained how it was wrong, but I got the feeling I was being humoured.

My brain hurts, this is much to difficult

Much too difficult, Alan.

[Fran]

I complained to the customer services manager about this at Christmas.

Good for you.

The rather annoying aspect is the Plain English Campaign advocating wording to "avoid any debate", rather than promote the correct version of the existing sign. Still, their remit is clarity more than anything else, and although good grammar should aid clarity, avoiding contention is sometimes a viable or necessary route to it (as one now has to avoid using the word "decimate" because purists will interpret it as destroying only 10% and others as nearer 90%).

[David P]

(as one now has to avoid using the word "decimate" because purists will interpret it as destroying only 10% and others as nearer 90%).

Or, to put it another way, 'because 10% will interpret it as destroying only 10% and 90% as nearer 90%'.

Another one that bugs me, particularly favoured by cheap furniture shops, is 'many bargains at up to half price'. I would challenge them except that they never have anything I want even at half price or less, which is what they are actually advertising.

[PaulEden]

'many bargains at up to half price'.

Is that cheaper than 'less than half price'?

[David P]

Is that cheaper than 'less than half price'?

No, it could be more expensive. Literally, it means 'less than or equal to half price'. However, the advertisers intend it to mean 'up to 50% off' or, literally, 'more than or equal to half price'. Not quite the same thing unless everything is offered at exactly half price.

[Kawasaki]

Hurrah! Tesco will replace grammatically incorrect signs saying "10 items or less".
But it's a bit of a cop out; instead of using the correct "10 items or fewer", they will use "up to 10 items".
Nevertheless, progress of a sort.

I know most people won't mind either way, but I'm pleased and presume David P will be too. :D

For the record, you should use "fewer" for individual things that could be counted and "less" for everything else that is measured in other ways, e.g. "less rice" or "fewer grains of rice".

See BBC story.

Let's hope the grammatical improvement will be accompanied by the check-out staff starting to enforce the regulation.I've lost count of the number of times that I, with my paltry 2 or 3 purchases, am kept waiting while in front of me customers with well in excess of 10 items are served.

[Paul Capewell]

Let's hope the grammatical improvement will be accompanied by the check-out staff starting to enforce the regulation.I've lost count of the number of times that I, with my paltry 2 or 3 purchases, am kept waiting while in front of me customers with well in excess of 10 items are served.

One step at a time

(Though I think your latter point should be a higher priority than the grammar of the signs, in terms of customer service)

[Eaton]

Apparently Tesco corrected their grammatically incorrect sign with a new one which says 'up to 10 item'.

http://www.dailymail...ke-blunder.html

[Fran]

a new one which says 'up to 10 item'.

Until I clicked your link I was quietly amused at the typo I thought you'd made, but it turns out, is Tesco's. (Sorry.)

I also note from that link that a Tesco spokesman said "The new signs will be in the rollout of new stores. We are not going to see any new ones in existing shops so shoppers in those will not see the change.", so don't expect to see them in Amersham.

Another one that bugs me, particularly favoured by cheap furniture shops, is 'many bargains at up to half price'. I would challenge them except that they never have anything I want even at half price or less, which is what they are actually advertising.

That narks me too, along with busses that proclaim they come "up to every 15 minutes".
And the silly saying about something being "cheap at half the price" - most things are.

[David P]

And the silly saying about something being "cheap at half the price" - most things are.

Fair enough if the implication is that it's too expensive at full price.

[Fran]

In the aftermath of this story, the BBC has posted the grammatical gaffes that most annoy 20 readers, along with quotes from the definitive Fowler's Guide to Modern English Usage, where relevant.

Grammar misuse.

[Paul Capewell]

In the aftermath of this story, the BBC has posted the grammatical gaffes that most annoy 20 readers, along with quotes from the definitive Fowler's Guide to Modern English Usage, where relevant.

Grammar misuse.

Good lord that made me feel ill.