16 replies to this topic

[funkydoodycool]

2012 LU Fares (2010 fares in brackets for comparison)

In addition to the increased fares, the 2-6 and 2-9 daily travelcards (and respective Oyster PAYG caps) will no longer exist. Single fares will be charged up to the full 1-9 cap. e.g. on paper tickets 2010 off-peak return Amersham to Ricky is off-peak TC 2-9, £5.60. 2011 return Amersham to Ricky is £8.00 return.

Single fares
Zones 1-9
Oyster £6.00 (£6.00)
Oyster off-peak £3.50 (£3.40)
Paper Ticket £7.00 (£7.00)

Zones 2-9W (Watford Junction)
Oyster £4.00 (£4.00)
Oyster off-peak £2.50 (£2.30)
Paper Ticket £6.00 (£5.50)

Zones 4-9W
Oyster £3.00 (£3.00)
Oyster off-peak £1.40 (£1.30)
Paper £5.00 (£4.00)

Zones 5-9
Oyster £2.50 (£2.50)
Oyster off-peak £1.40 (£1.30)
Paper £4.00 (£3.50)

Zones 6-9, 7-9, 8-9
Oyster £2.00 (£1.30 - £1.50)
Oyster off-peak £1.40 (£1.30)
Paper £4.00 (£3.50)

Daily Oyster Caps (Zones 1-9)
Adult Peak £18.60 (£16.20)
Adult off-peak £11.00 (£9.00)
Child Peak £9.30 (£8.10)
Child off-peak £1.30 (£1.00)
NR Railcard off-peak £6.60 (£5.90)

Daily Travelcard Rates
Adult Peak £18.60 (£16.20)
Adult off-peak £11.00 (£9.00)
Child Peak £9.30 (£8.10)
Child off-peak £4.00 (£2.60)
NR Railcard off-peak £7.20 (£5.90)
NR Railcard child £2.00 (£1.00)

Season Tickets
Zones 1-9
Weekly £71.60 (£67.70)
Monthly £275.00 (£260.00)
Annual £2,864.00 (£2,708.00)

[hyposmurf]

Thats really quite painfull for alot of people at time when they can least afford such increases.For instance:

adult peak 12.34% increase
child off peak oyster cap 30% increase

How much of an increase would there be for a commuter wanting a return oyster journey bewteen Amersham/Chesham into/from central London during peak hours?Im begining to get lost with all the zone changes that have ben made.

[Paul Capewell]

I know the increases are an annual thing but it's still always galling to see them. I'm just glad I figured out this summer that one can apply one's Young Persons Railcard to one's Oyster card, thereby making the saving of a third on the daily cap. Historically I'd always thought you couldn't use YPRC on Tube tickets, but with Oyster you can.

[roob_the_doob]

How much will Oyster be for a child for Amersham to Little Chalfont?

[PeterC]

How much of an increase would there be for a commuter wanting a return oyster journey bewteen Amersham/Chesham into/from central London during peak hours?Im begining to get lost with all the zone changes that have ben made.

There is no increase to cash or PAYG adult peak single fares to zone 1 from zones 8 (Chalfont) and 9 (Amersham and Chesham). Peak fares will only apply towards London in the morning and away from London in the evening.

The documents linked in the original thread on this subject state that there is a deliberate intention to encourage customers to "move to Oyster", which actually appears to mean move to PAYG.

[PeterC]

How much will Oyster be for a child for Amersham to Little Chalfont?

Peak 70p off peak 65p

Increase of 5p for peak, no change for offpeak. Child needs to touch in on the homeward journey before 16:00 to get the off peak fare.

[Bengley]

I'm sick of this, a £2 increase on an off peak travelcard is ridiculous.

I honestly can't see LU's logic in these disgusting fare increases and it's definitely going to drive me off the underground (or at least paying to use it).

[PeterC]

I honestly can't see LU's logic in these disgusting fare increases and it's definitely going to drive me off the underground (or at least paying to use it).

The logic is that you should pay for what you use rather than have Red Ken's socialist "all you can eat" prices.

[roob_the_doob]

The logic is that you should pay for what you use rather than have Red Ken's socialist "all you can eat" prices.

Or to put it another way, rather than public transport being viewed as a public good that reduces the overall costs of transport for the country as a whole, it is instead viewed as something that benefits only the individual using it, who should therefore pay the full cost.

Which is of course the fundamental conceptual difference between the two main political parties.

[hyposmurf]

Or to put it another way, rather than public transport being viewed as a public good that reduces the overall costs of transport for the country as a whole, it is instead viewed as something that benefits only the individual using it, who should therefore pay the full cost.

Thats true, but at the same time it does nothing to attract people to use the railways over vehicle travel.You just have to look at the lower cost of travel across the waters in other European countries and see how many more of them travel by public transport.We recently did a 70 mile journey(one way) by Intercity from Prague to another town for £12 return for the two of us.No rush to pin down the scarce cheap tickets at the right time(like UK national train fares).This is a standard price you pay no matter when you travel.

[Eaton]

My husband has noticed far more people on the 0632 Chiltern Turbo since the increased fares. We presume that it's the people that would normally have caught the 0640 Met, by getting to the station 10 minutes earlier they are saving £5.60.

[PeterC]

By entering the station before 6:30 people using PAYG save £2.50 if travelling to zone 1. The return journey will cost the same as before if made in the peak and 10p more than before if made in the off peak.

[Eaton]

By entering the station before 6:30 people using PAYG save £2.50 if travelling to zone 1. The return journey will cost the same as before if made in the peak and 10p more than before if made in the off peak.

You've lost me I'm afraid. As far as I was aware the cost of PAYG before 6.30am is £3 to Moorgate but after 6.30am it's £8.60 (previously £8.50). Was I wrong?

[PeterC]

Zone 9 to zone 1 peak PAYG is £6 and is unchanged. The highest PAYG fare that I can find is Zone9 to Grays which is £6.90

[Adrian]

Or to put it another way, rather than public transport being viewed as a public good that reduces the overall costs of transport for the country as a whole, it is instead viewed as something that benefits only the individual using it, who should therefore pay the full cost.

Which is of course the fundamental conceptual difference between the two main political parties.

The flaw with the argument that it's a 'public good' (which does have its own logic) is that the people who work on the Underground, the people who build and maintain trains and stations and ticketing systems and all the other parts of the complex organisational jigsaw all want paying at at least commercial rates. The only modes of transport that don't make the tube look expensive are black cabs and helicopters! (and it is now possible to spend more going one stop by tube that it would cost you to jump in a black cab).

An underground railway system is a fabulously luxurious mode of transport. For many types of journey in a city it simply could not be improved upon, but the capability that it offers comes at a very high price.

[PeterC]

(and it is now possible to spend more going one stop by tube that it would cost you to jump in a black cab).

The old Covent Garden to Leicester Square example. A similar distance to that between Old Amersham and the hospital.

[hyposmurf]

The old Covent Garden to Leicester Square example. A similar distance to that between Old Amersham and the hospital.

Thats quite shocking. But in a way weve been funding the cheaper train fares through our taxes for years.