110 replies to this topic

[gizmo]

I would suggest parents contact the village schools (our kids are in Coleshill CofE). Also there has been a reply saying that it takes 25mins to get to Holmer Green, I'm not being rude but during rush hour I can drive to High Wycombe (this can also be verified as FACT on google maps) in less than 25mins. I would suggest the parents focus on a transport scheme that removes the distance & time (and incovience) issues rather than moan about something that will not change...mojority of the schools in the area are good.

perhaps time to put this conversation to bed?

I find comments like this annoying, and frankly a waste of time.

It took us two and a half years to find a family house in Amersham (intensive searching using Rightmove, "is your house for sale through peoples letterboxes", and registered with every estate agent in Amersham).

I was born in Amersham hospital, and want my children to be able to walk to school (like I did). Using a car, dealing with traffic, the expense, and stress is not a way forward.

This "lets us our car" attitude is harsh, and it is irresponsible for Buckinghamshire County Council to suggest "bussing" children to outside schools is the way forward.

Their is no longer-term way forward being offered, and the new housing developments in Amersham/Little Chalfont are going to make things worse.

[Sunday Night]

In the short term would a solution not be to erect a quality temporary classroom at Chestnut Lane School? It (Elangeni) more than has the space.

Chestnut Lane and Elangeni are not the same school. They're linked schools, but essentially separate infant and junior.

I know. I went to both schools. However, both schools are owned by BCC and sit on land owned by BCC. As council tax payers we all contribute to the maintenance of this playing field - and both schools.

Also, Chestnut Lane does share the field on occassions and there is a direct path from the school to the field, logistically making it an ideal interim solution.

As I understand it, the playing field, which is vast, is only used in the summer term, save for a few football matches. It could therefore be argued that it is wasted space at a time when demand dictates children need school places, not empty fields. I am not talking about a permanent construction, though at some point this is going to have to be considered somewhere in Amersham.

What I find extraordinary about this whole ongoing debate is that no one really seems to want to find a solution, save those directly affected e.g. those with children without a school place or with reception age children.

This is a solution - short term maybe, but it is a solution for the 4 year olds that are actually at the centre of this debate. These children have no political agenda (or time on their hands to get involved in an issue that really doesn't involve them directly - as I think could be the case with a lot of the contributors to this debate).

As a side, if Chestnut Lane and Elangeni are not the same school then the fact a child has a sibling at Elangeni should not entitle them to a place at Chestnut Lane under the sibling rule, as it currently does. This would have changed the admissions picture considerably for some of the children I know. Politics. Its a dangerous game!

I would be interested to know what your solution would be.................

[roob_the_doob]

As a side, if Chestnut Lane and Elangeni are not the same school then the fact a child has a sibling at Elangeni should not entitle them to a place at Chestnut Lane under the sibling rule, as it currently does.

Bucks CC entry conditions specifically include a linked school in the rule concerning siblings (Rule 3).

Note, however, that getting a place at Chestnut Lane does NOT guarantee a place at Elangeni (although it's pretty likely).

[zippys]

Bucks CC entry conditions specifically include a linked school in the rule concerning siblings (Rule 3).

Note, however, that getting a place at Chestnut Lane does NOT guarantee a place at Elangeni (although it's pretty likely).

why not add a temporary classroom at St Mary's, St Georges or Bell Lane each have space? all this FIXATION with chestnut lane isn't correctly placed.

I guess if you selected a highly sought after school you accepted the placement risks?

and I still stand that Holmer Green takes less than 15mins from Amersham (have you thought about car share?)

[HP6]

This "lets us our car" attitude is harsh, and it is irresponsible for Buckinghamshire County Council to suggest "bussing" children to outside schools is the way forward.

I'm not going to defend BCC all the way (Bell Lane debacle, Misbourne problems), but when they attempted to scale down the bussing of children (the consultation over transport arrangements) there was an outcry from parents who wanted someone else to pay for the fare. Irresponsible?

Also, Chestnut Lane does share the field on occassions and there is a direct path from the school to the field, logistically making it an ideal interim solution.

Is there? The only path I can think of runs across the Elangeni site and past a series of outbuildings which are discreetly occupied by a Pupil Referral Unit.

As a side, if Chestnut Lane and Elangeni are not the same school then the fact a child has a sibling at Elangeni should not entitle them to a place at Chestnut Lane under the sibling rule, as it currently does. This would have changed the admissions picture considerably for some of the children I know. Politics. Its a dangerous game!

Yes. As would abolishing the concept of linked schools generally. Not very fair though, as parents at combined schools only have to play the admissions game twice (once at primary, once at secondary).

I wonder what preferences the families in Maple Lawns/Raans Road will be expressing in a few year's time?

[Sunday Night]

I did say it was speculation. But your 'stats' are both inaccurate and out of date.

First, we are talking about 11/12, not 09/10, and we have no stats yet on the drop in private school intake for the coming school year.

Secondly, you quote the aggregate private school roll across all ages, including foreign students - in fact the reduction in the number of four-year olds starting prep school in 2009 was 5.2% compared to 2008 (see here), and it may well have got a lot worse since then.

Thirdly, the distribution nationally of private education is very uneven - 2 private schools in Amersham is a very large proportion of the total school intake compared to the national figure, and so Amersham is likely to be affected by swings in private school intake much more than the average.

Fourth, the Amersham demographic is not of extraordinarily wealthy individuals unlikely to be badly affected by the recession, but of upper middle class with high income but relatively little capital - precisely those most likely to have their preference for private school restricted by loss of job/reduced income.

[gizmo]

I'm not going to defend BCC all the way (Bell Lane debacle, Misbourne problems), but when they attempted to scale down the bussing of children (the consultation over transport arrangements) there was an outcry from parents who wanted someone else to pay for the fare. Irresponsible?

[/b]

My point was more environmentally focussed than financial. There are enough cars on the roads already, without parents having to drive their children to "none-local" schools, which are outside the locality.

I do understand that BCC do need to save money, but reducing (or stopping) school buses makes very little environmental sense. I have seen taxis used for picking up pupils, and taking them to school.

I don't want to see taxis, buses, or parents cars used for primary school transportation. Parents should walk their children to school. I used to walk from half-way up station road to St Marys (with parent) in all weathers. I see no reason why this cannot still happen.

[David P]

Parents should walk their children to school. I used to walk from half-way up station road to St Marys (with parent) in all weathers. I see no reason why this cannot still happen.

I still see plenty of St Mary's children walking to school, some from nearer the top of Station Road. The same goes for Our Lady's.
It seems to be the Beacon and Heatherton House that cause the traffic problems.

[Fran]

It seems to be the Beacon and Heatherton House that cause the traffic problems.

Independent schools don't have catchment areas, so they invariably have a large number of pupils coming from beyond walking distance.

In more general terms, although there are unarguable reasons why it's good for children to walk to school, it's very common nowadays for both parents to work, so even if school is walking distance, children are often dropped of en route to work. And then you get families where siblings are allocated schools in opposite directions. It's not always laziness that means people get in the car.

[David P]

Independent schools don't have catchment areas, so they invariably have a large number of pupils coming from beyond walking distance.

In more general terms, although there are unarguable reasons why it's good for children to walk to school, it's very common nowadays for both parents to work, so even if school is walking distance, children are often dropped of en route to work. And then you get families where siblings are allocated schools in opposite directions. It's not always laziness that means people get in the car.

The working parents argument applies equally to public and private schools. And I would guess that Chesham Bois provides a very significant 'catchment area' for HH and The Beacon. So I don't believe that your arguments explain the observed large difference in the number of walkers.

[Fran]

I haven't seen anything in the Examiner, but the BFP has picked up the story of the now 17 Amersham children without a reception place in Amersham.

Apparently there is the possibility of more places at St Georges. On the other hand, they say that Bell Lane is unpopular with Amersham parents, without mentioning that its Reception class will apparently be full (hence the problem that triggered this topic), so I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Anyway, column inches raise the profile of the problem. See: BFP article.

Good luck to those still hoping for a school place somewhere more convenient than they have currently been offered.

Edited by Fran, 23 June 2011 - 07:32 PM.
Clarification of what is "full"

[ThreeDaysGrace]

Bell Lane is not full.... nowhere near full even!

[Fran]

Bell Lane is not full.... nowhere near full even!

Sorry, I should have specified that the Reception class will apparently apparently be full, as that is primarily that year group that is being discussed here. (I've amended my post for clarity.)

[ThreeDaysGrace]

Ah, sorry! I thought we were talking about this September

[Fran]

Ah, sorry! I thought we were talking about this September

Actually, I might be. I have no inside knowledge, but am just going by what I've read here.

[roob_the_doob]

Actually, I might be. I have no inside knowledge, but am just going by what I've read here.

Although kids start in reception at different times in the year (some in Sept, and others not until e.g.Jan or Apr), I presume that places for the year are allocated all at once? So the classes won't actually be full until towards the end of the reception year?

Anyone know for sure?

[hjb]

Although kids start in reception at different times in the year (some in Sept, and others not until e.g.Jan or Apr), I presume that places for the year are allocated all at once? So the classes won't actually be full until towards the end of the reception year?

Anyone know for sure?

My understanding is that there has been a change in the law; they now all start at the same time in September.

[roob_the_doob]

My understanding is that there has been a change in the law; they now all start at the same time in September.

Just looked this up. LEAs now have the option to offer full-time schooling from the September following a child's 4th birthday, but are still able to stick to the old arrangements. Bucks does appear to have switched to the full-year policy.

However, parents still have the option to defer their child's entry into school until later in the year, following the old rising-5s model. So although school places are allocated for the full school year, a small number may in fact not be taken up until later in the year.

I'm wondering whether this change in policy has had any impact on the allocation of school places? It's not immediately obvious how, but one possibility is that it's increased the number of children allocated a place who will end up not using it because their parents move away. It's also concentrated the need to get a school place allocated into one short time window - if half the children in the year weren't going to be starting until April, there would more time for places to become free, and less urgency in getting a place allocated.

[cathindia]

I don't know if the change in starting dates for reception have affected the problem of getting a place in September or not. But I can update you a bit on the current situation for September. I wasn't at the meeting with Mr Appleyard last week so don't really know how the dicussion went. But Bucks have made it very clear that it is up to Chestnut Lane to offer to put on a bulge class. Although the County could force them to do it, they do not want to. Bucks have said that they would provide funding and support if Chestnut Lane would put on a bulge class. The parents want the bulge class, the county will support it, but the school is saying no.

There are around 27 children on the waiting list for Chestnut Lane at the moment. All bar 1 are catchment children who didn;t get a place. Some of those children did get a place at a school in Amersham. But around 17 reception children have still not been offered a place in Amersham. (We remain at Holmer Green) as few places have come available in Amersham.

Since Chestnut Lane are refusing to put on a bulge class (and they have sited a number of reasons for this - the key one being that they do not want it to be an annual event, although the County are now proposing measures to reduce the pressure on the school by changing the catchment for Chesham Bois and, possibly, other schools in Amersham - for information this year Chesham Bois only had 7 children in catchment apply for a place in reception - the remaining 23 children who were allocated a place were out of catchment - some at least from Chesham), the County are offering an extra 15 places at St Georges (who have been very open to taking extra children). But it will not cover all the affected children and places will be allocated on distance from the school. Bell Lane was full after the first allocation round. However some children have since been offered places at higher preference schools or have made alternative arrangements (according to the County). Therefore there are officially 5 places now available at Bell Lane. But as it usual entry number is only 25, it is possible to push that up by another 5 to take it to 30. So potentially there are up to 10 places available there. Though I am not clear if any provision has been made to manage the extra children (above the 25 which the school normally caters for). The problem for many affected families is that they live over in the Chesham Bois part of Amersham and Bell Lane is still not that easy to reach. In my specific case, both my other children (hurray) now have places at Chesham Bois.

Previous posters have asked why parents are so set ona bulge class at Chestnut Lane. The basic reason is that it is the catchment school and therefore:

- it allows children to be part of their immediate local community;
- it allows them to walk to school;
- it improves the chances of having continuity of education when the children need to move from Y2 to Y3; (In the case of St George's for instance - non-catchment children will be last to be allocated places at Woodside and are unlikely to get a place at Elangeni as they did not attend the linked infant school so families could find them having to go through this all over again at the end of Y2)
- for families with more than one child, it significantly increases the chances of subsequent children being able to attend the same school. (For most of the families involved, this is their first child going to school. So this is a serious problem. They could end up with the situation we have found oursleves in with children at different schools some distance apart. We and one other family, as far as I know, are the only ones with siblings already in schools).
- a number of the children have attended the nursery in Chestnut Lane and so are very familiar with the school.

We also need to keep in mind the fact that we are talking about families who in many cases live only 0.3 miles from the school which is nothing. It is very galling for them not to be able to get their children into a school right on their doorstep.

Personally I could accept St George's (though I am not hopeful of being offered a place), but clearly with 2 children in Chesham Bois, Chestnut Lane would be better (and Chesham Bois better still!).

I hope this gives a bit more clarity to the issue.
If anyone wants to support us, then please add your name to the petition to Bucks. Link below:

http://www.buckscc.g...lay.aspx?ID=505

[LCM]

The parents want the bulge class, the county will support it, but the school is saying no

Do you mean the parents involved in the petition? There aren't many existing Chestnut Lane parents in favour of a Bulge class!

[cathindia]

The parents want the bulge class, the county will support it, but the school is saying no

Do you mean the parents involved in the petition? There aren't many existing Chestnut Lane parents in favour of a Bulge class!

I guessed that. But I would be interested why not? The real catchment area for Chesnut Lane is getting smaller each year. I hope that those parents who have got their children in can see that. If they are against extra children then I hope they are never in a similar situation in the future. I recognise that it is not easy for the school, but it could be done. And the County would give the finance for it. This year you only got in, if you have a sibling at the school or live closer than .391 miles. Next year who knows? I recognise that existing parents are happy with the school as it is, but I think that perhaps it is worth everyone thinking about the children involved. We are talking of young children having to travel 7 miles to school each way each day, not being with their siblings (in the future or currently in my case) and not being able to make local friends.

[Bluegrass]

Asking my friend who currently has children at Chestnut Lane, she says that they could do a bulge class if they either used the Nursery classroom (so no more nursery school) or took back the classroom currently rented to a private day care centre. Surely both options should be considered? I wonder why county can't make them take a bulge? Surely it should not be up to a school to decide for themselves?

Also harping back to another thread on CL, she told me that yet another 2 teachers have left so maybe all is not well there.

County need to address the issue of school places in Amersham and resolve it not only for this year but for the coming year given that the amount of new housing in Amersham (Raans road etc) is going to put even more pressure on current schools. I think the finger should be being pointed at them rather than at a school.

[HP6]

I guessed that. But I would be interested why not? .................. We are talking of young children having to travel 7 miles to school each way each day, not being with their siblings (in the future or currently in my case) and not being able to make local friends.

Because they can't see how a bulge class would incorporated within the school infrastructure without their own children's education being adversely affected? Where is the classroom? Because it would be the thin end of the wedge? A bulge class in 2012, 2013 - with Elangeni coming under pressure in a few year's time?

I sympathise with the circumstances, but we are only talking about 7 miles because St George's/Woodside, St Mary's, Chesham Bois CE and Bell Lane have shortages. I wonder whether some people regard these as unacceptable alternatives?

[cathindia]

I sympathise with the circumstances, but we are only talking about 7 miles because St George's/Woodside, St Mary's, Chesham Bois CE and Bell Lane have shortages. I wonder whether some people regard these as unacceptable alternatives?

I am not quite clear what you mean by shortages. To be honest if there were places at the other schools this would not be such an issue. But all the other schools in Amersham (except Bell Lane) are full. Bell Lane now has some places (officially 5 possibly 10 but that is only a recent development - we were allocated Holmer Green because Bell Lane was also full after the first allocation round). St George's is full. The Council are looking at putting an extra 15 places at St Georges. I am sure some of the existing parents there are also concerned about how the additional children will be managed within the school. But the head is open to looking at how to help. These extra places could also cause a knock-on effect for Woodside. However I have just had an email saying that even this is not yet confirmed.

I would be delighted to take a place at Chesham Bois. But it was full after the first round and is still full. St Mary's is full. Our Lady's is full. I do undertand, truely, the concerns of parents with children at Chestnut Lane as to how a bulge class would be managed and the concerns for following years. It is not straightforward. The Council have said that they will look at changing catchment to take the pressure off Chestnut Lane next year and ensure that this does not become an annual problem. But please understand that none of us has turned down a place at school in Amersham. None of us have been offered a place at a school in Amersham. If I get a place for my son at St George's in the next allocation round next week that would reduce my stress levels hugely. I am not hopeful. But even if the extra 15 places are made available, then it will not cover all the displaced children. Which is why parents of the children concerned have been campaigning for a whole extra class so that all the children affected (allocated schools outside Amersham) can go to school in Amersham.

[ThreeDaysGrace]

On a lighter note, I'm sure I read somewhere (was it here?) that the name the group of disgruntled parents have given themselves is 'Chestnut Lane Action Group' ie - CLAG ..... maybe someone should have checked the urban dictionary before naming the group

[Eaton]

I'm sure I read somewhere (was it here?) that the name the group of disgruntled parents have given themselves is 'Chestnut Lane Action Group' ie - CLAG ..... maybe someone should have checked the urban dictionary before naming the group

It was in either the BFP or Bucks Examiner this week, I almost spat my drink across the keyboard when I read it.

Here's the link from the BE. http://www.buckingha...14018-28929576/

Edited by Eaton, 24 June 2011 - 06:18 PM.
adding a link to Bucks Ex

[Fran]

On a lighter note, I'm sure I read somewhere (was it here?) that the name the group of disgruntled parents have given themselves is 'Chestnut Lane Action Group' ie - CLAG ..... maybe someone should have checked the urban dictionary before naming the group

I defy anyone to look up anything on Urban Dictionary and NOT find something rude or offensive.

Meanwhile, I just hope that places can be found somehow, somewhere, not just this year, but in the years to come.

[zippys]

OMG fancy calling the action group CLAG, only demonstrates parents lack of common sense

[HP6]

I do undertand, truely, the concerns of parents with children at Chestnut Lane as to how a bulge class would be managed and the concerns for following years.

So where would the bulge class be?
Do you think Woodlands should vacate?
Would you favour a bulge class in 2012 if the same problem occurs, or would the school be "full"
Where is Elangeni going to put the third class in 2014?

[cathindia]

So where would the bulge class be?
Do you think Woodlands should vacate?
Would you favour a bulge class in 2012 if the same problem occurs, or would the school be "full"
Where is Elangeni going to put the third class in 2014?

These are the options that have been suggested by parents of the action group. They would like the opportunity to discuss their feasibility with both the school, LA and existing parents. The school have been advised that while appeals for Chestnut Lane are ongoing they should not meet members of the group. So this sort of discussion cannot really take place until after the Chestnut Lane appeals are completed which I think will be early July.

Optionswe would like to discuss with the LA, the school and the parents

1) makethe ICT room a classroom

Webelieve that the ICT room used to be a spare classroom. Many schools,both community and independent, do not have a dedicated ICTclassroom. Rather they have computers on portable trolleys that store andcharge the computers at the same time and make their use more flexible. Webelieve St George's were going to forgo a dedicated ICT room when asked to takeadditional children from Bell Lane,when the school was marked for closure.



2) makeuse of the caretaker's house

upuntil February 2010 the caretaker's house had planning permission to beconverted into an additional private nursery for 27 children. Subsequentplanning permission uses this house for one to one sessions for children incare which are nothing to do with Chestnut Lane School. Might the LA not consider moving these one to one sessions elsewhere andupdating the facility as per previous planning permission to house WoodlandsDay Nursery, thereby freeing up a classroom?



3) Additionalspace land

thereis additional unused land available adjacent to the caretaker's house whichcould be used to house a portacabin - an option used in many schools which accommodatebulge classes.



4) couldthe school forgo Rainbow Class?

WoodlandsDay Nursery and Rainbow Class overlap in childcare provision. RainbowClass has a teacher and is empty from September to January. Many parentsopt not to send their children to Rainbow Class since they are usually, at fouryears old, already attending a nursery, and are at Rainbow for one or twoterms at most.



On future years:

· The LAhas now recognised that it has to act, particularly since birth rates for 2012intake are even greater than that for 2011 intake. The LA has told usthat it is going to act in time for 2012 intake. That does not resolvethe issue for the displaced children this year.This is by reviewing catchment areas in time for next year's intake and the LA has said that it will be lookingat issues such as why some Amersham schools take a large proportion of theirintake from outside the town, whether that be caused by faith applications orby inappropriate catchment areas.

This is to show that parents have tried to think about the issues and look for possible solutions in conjunction with the school and existing parents. I am not able (as I simply do not know) to offer any views on how the issue would be handled by the time it reaches Year 3. Though, of course, all these displaced children could still be in a position where they are applying for a place in Elangeni in Year 3 as they could have no school to go to then (ie IF St George;s takes some of them, they will be out of catchment for Woodside and are therefore unlikely to get in. At that stage either Woodside or Elangeni is going to have to deal with that issue or all these children will be sent out of Amersham at Year 3. Also not an ideal solution. I am trying to show that there are lots of issues to be considered and it would be helpful if all those involved could discuss them. Someone else may well come up with a different option. Please keep in mind that these are merely suggestions and which is why they need to be discussed to see how workable any of them would be. The LA have said that they would provide the funding for a bulge class.

Thank you for taking an interest.