60 replies to this topic

[ianbartlett]

Thanks for finding that out.I hardly use the met any more, but understand how annoying the changes will be to regular passengers.

This will, of course, impact on Chiltern Railways users as well - more people wil cram onto those service instead of taking the soon-to-be-much-slower Met trains.

[PeterC]

This will, of course, impact on Chiltern Railways users as well - more people wil cram onto those service instead of taking the soon-to-be-much-slower Met trains.

It will still be quicker to take the first train that comes rather than wait for a Chiltern unless you really want Marylebone itself.

[Matthew (Admin/MPJ)]

It will still be quicker to take the first train that comes rather than wait for a Chiltern unless you really want Marylebone itself.

Well that will depend how far apart the trains are.

If a Met leaves within 15 minutes before a Marylebone service, then with the Met stopping more after Rickmansworth, i suspect the Marylebone service will over take it around the Harrow area.

[Danny Boy]

Wouldn't it be better to scrap the fast Chesham service and reinstate the shuttle? The numbers using this service don't justify the cost and inconvenience to other Met Line users.

[Matthew (Admin/MPJ)]

Wouldn't it be better to scrap the fast Chesham service and reinstate the shuttle? The numbers using this service don't justify the cost and inconvenience to other Met Line users.

The shuttle could not return long term as the new S8 trains cannot be split into 4 cars and a full length train will not fit into the bay platform at Chalfont and TFL won't expand the platform, which would also mean moving the points and track layout. TFL want a standard train stock on the Met, so won't want a special train for the shuttle as this would raise costs.

[Danny Boy]

Why don't they use an old stock train and just shunt it back and forth? Get one out of the transport museum, it might attract tourists and railway anoraks.

[PeterC]

it might attract tourists and railway anoraks.

Debated at tedious length on anorak discussion boards and generally agreed as unfeasible,

If a Met leaves within 15 minutes before a Marylebone service, then with the Met stopping more after Rickmansworth, i suspect the Marylebone service will over take it around the Harrow area.

And if you are going anywhere apart from Marylebone itself or a station on the Bakerloo line the extra change takes away the advantage of the faster journey.

[roob_the_doob]

And if you are going anywhere apart from Marylebone itself or a station on the Bakerloo line the extra change takes away the advantage of the faster journey.

... or anywhere where a Bakerloo is a sensible first change, e.g. southern half of the Northern or Victoria or Picadilly Lines, anywhere on the Central Line

... or anywhere on the west half of the Circle or on the District Lines. It's already at least as quick to walk from Marylebone as it is to wait at Baker St for a Hammersmith train and then change at Edgware Rd.

[Eaton]

And if you are going anywhere apart from Marylebone itself or a station on the Bakerloo line the extra change takes away the advantage of the faster journey.

I only use the trains a couple or three times a year when I'm going to the theatre etc but I find the walk from Baker St to Marylebone quite refreshing and exactly the right amount of time for a quick nicotine fix and the added advantage is that the Chiltern is so much more comfortable so I can fall asleep on it (although obviously it's a bit of a worry that we may not wake up at Amersham but I normally set the alarm on my phone for 30 minutes) whereas the Met Line always gives me backache and the feeling that I've been through the washing machine...

[Matthew (Admin/MPJ)]

Chesham users seem to be on the ball see www.chilternvoice.co.uk

I have emailed Cheryl Gillan and had a reply she will look into the matter.

[hyposmurf]

Chesham users seem to be on the ball see www.chilternvoice.co.uk

I have emailed Cheryl Gillan and had a reply she will look into the matter.

Good.
It just seems daft spending millions on upgrading the line,trains and stations to then make the majority of train journeys longer.I'd rather they hadn't even had bothered with the upgrade if thats the case.

[ianbartlett]

Good.
It just seems daft spending millions on upgrading the line,trains and stations to then make the majority of train journeys longer.I'd rather they hadn't even had bothered with the upgrade if thats the case.

I'm convinced this is actually a result of Tube budget cuts - a way of improving the service for intermediate stations (Moor Park - North Harrow) on the cheap, but at the expense of Amersham/Chesham users.

Those concerned do need to contact Cheryl Gillan as she is the only avenue for getting anyone to listen; however, I am genuinely concerned that her influence is somewhat diminished at the moment, especially on rail matters, because of her stance on HS2.

I only use the trains a couple or three times a year when I'm going to the theatre etc but I find the walk from Baker St to Marylebone quite refreshing and exactly the right amount of time for a quick nicotine fix and the added advantage is that the Chiltern is so much more comfortable so I can fall asleep on it (although obviously it's a bit of a worry that we may not wake up at Amersham but I normally set the alarm on my phone for 30 minutes) whereas the Met Line always gives me backache and the feeling that I've been through the washing machine...

Hmmm. My father-in-law is 94 but still very active. However, I don't think he would find the walk from Marylebone to Baker Street especially refreshing...

[Danny Boy]

"Those concerned do need to contact Cheryl Gillan as she is the only avenue for getting anyone to listen; however, I am genuinely concerned that her influence is somewhat diminished at the moment, especially on rail matters, because of her stance on HS2."

Don't be silly. I think you are letting your rabid anti-anti-HS2 stance cloud your judgement. Your assessment of a rural MPs influence over TFL underground strategy are delusionary. Try to think less selfishly and consider the commuters who huddle on the stations from Moor Park to Wembley, who witness those fast trains hurtle past, whilst they crowd onto the slow ones. I guess such disgruntled commuters far outweigh the few who use the fast Chesham service. The pace of development and growth in population in suburban London far outweighs that of the Chilterns.

[147]

However those people south of Moor Park already have a 10 minute service. Chesham only gets a 30 minute service due to the single track from chalfont to Chesham. Running all stations Will only make the service less reliable.

[147]

However those people south of Moor Park already have a 10 minute service. Chesham only gets a 30 minute service due to the single track from chalfont to Chesham. Running all stations Will only make the service less reliable.

[ianbartlett]

"Those concerned do need to contact Cheryl Gillan as she is the only avenue for getting anyone to listen; however, I am genuinely concerned that her influence is somewhat diminished at the moment, especially on rail matters, because of her stance on HS2."

Don't be silly. I think you are letting your rabid anti-anti-HS2 stance cloud your judgement. Your assessment of a rural MPs influence over TFL underground strategy are delusionary. Try to think less selfishly and consider the commuters who huddle on the stations from Moor Park to Wembley, who witness those fast trains hurtle past, whilst they crowd onto the slow ones. I guess such disgruntled commuters far outweigh the few who use the fast Chesham service. The pace of development and growth in population in suburban London far outweighs that of the Chilterns.

Sorry, your tone is quite offensive. Could the mods have a word...?

[ianbartlett]

However those people south of Moor Park already have a 10 minute service. Chesham only gets a 30 minute service due to the single track from chalfont to Chesham. Running all stations Will only make the service less reliable.

And, of course, this applies to the Amersham service as well, not just Chesham.

[Matthew (Admin/MPJ)]

Sorry, your tone is quite offensive. Could the mods have a word...?

A reminder

Disagreeing with someone's opinion is perfectly OK, that is one of the reasons for a forum, to have a debate.

However, we will not have personal attacks on people.

The moderators will take any action necessary to stop personal attacks on people.

[ianbartlett]

A reminder

Disagreeing with someone's opinion is perfectly OK, that is one of the reasons for a forum, to have a debate.

However, we will not have personal attacks on people.

The moderators will take any action necessary to stop personal attacks on people.

Thank you - much appreciated.

[Matthew (Admin/MPJ)]

TFL reposne

"Thank you for contacting us about the proposed changes this coming December to the train schedules from Amersham and Chesham.

As you know, timetable changes on a busy and complex network like London Underground often involve compromises and trade-offs between the needs of different groups of passengers. In making such changes we work on the principle that the negative impact from any proposed timetable change should be kept to a minimum and will only be tolerated if there is a significant positive benefit to other users on the line. The off-peak changes in December will result in some disbenefit to the relatively small number of passengers travelling to or from the north end of the line at the affected times, but these passengers will gain some compensating benefits from other changes to the timetable, while the additional stops on the ‘local lines’ will improve services for a larger number of passengers.

Over the course of a week there are an average of 53,000 off-peak journeys to or from Chesham, Amersham, Chalfont & Latimer, Chorleywood, Rickmansworth and Moor Park that will experience longer run-times (by up to 6.5 minutes) as a result of the additional stops. However, this group of passengers will benefit from the fact that their trains will become through trains to Aldgate rather than terminating at Baker Street, reducing the need to interchange for those travelling to destinations or connections in the City. Furthermore, an average of 141,000 off-peak journeys to or from Northwood, Northwood Hills, Pinner, North Harrow, Northwick Park and Preston Road on the ‘local lines’ will benefit from reduced platform wait times due to the increase in the frequency of stopping trains.

These changes to the scheduled service represent an overall benefit, particularly given that customers consistently place a higher value on reductions in platform wait time and interchanging when compared with on-train time. Furthermore, all passengers will also benefit from other changes in the December timetable designed to improve Metropolitan line reliability by reducing train lateness and congestion at bottlenecks.

The general manager of the Metropolitan line is Angela Back, and you can write to her at 13 Allsop Place, London NW1 5LJ.

Once again, thank you for writing in. I hope the above helps to explain the logic behind the proposed changes. Please contact me again if you need any help in the future.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Advisor
Customer Service Centre"

[Danny Boy]

Sorry, your tone is quite offensive. Could the mods have a word...?

Sorry, perhaps you can highlight what you find offensive. I’d have thought the only people who would be offended recently in this forum would be the Stop HS2 people, the leader of the Council and Cheryl Gillian, who seem to be the target of your wrath. Its unreasonable to cast assertions on third parties and then not expect others to reply in kind. it is more democratic to engage in debate. To try to remove them from the debate is, frankly, childish.

[ianbartlett]

Over the course of a week there are an average of 53,000 off-peak journeys to or from Chesham, Amersham, Chalfont & Latimer, Chorleywood, Rickmansworth and Moor Park that will experience longer run-times (by up to 6.5 minutes) as a result of the additional stops. However, this group of passengers will benefit from the fact that their trains will become through trains to Aldgate rather than terminating at Baker Street, reducing the need to interchange for those travelling to destinations or connections in the City. Furthermore, an average of 141,000 off-peak journeys to or from Northwood, Northwood Hills, Pinner, North Harrow, Northwick Park and Preston Road on the 'local lines' will benefit from reduced platform wait times due to the increase in the frequency of stopping trains.
"

Interesting stats...they do, of course, have a train every ten minutes, whereasa Chesham and Amersham have one every 30 minutes each.

[PaulEden]

Sorry, perhaps you can highlight what you find offensive. I’d have thought the only people who would be offended recently in this forum would be the Stop HS2 people, the leader of the Council and Cheryl Gillian, who seem to be the target of your wrath. Its unreasonable to cast assertions on third parties and then not expect others to reply in kind. it is more democratic to engage in debate. To try to remove them from the debate is, frankly, childish.

You're being unnecessarily combative in your posts. You are detracting from the debate by bring personality into this.

It's reasonable to examine individuals motivation for being pro or anti HS2, but your style is not in keeping with this forum. Please consider how you use this it - you are, like everyone, a guest here. Perhaps you could behave accordingly?

[ianbartlett]

Dear Forum Users,

Below is a copy of an email I have sent to Chery Gillan concerning the proposed, yet officially unannounced so far, changes to the Metropolitan Line timetable from December 2011. I'll let you know details of any reponse I receive.

Thanks, Ian

********************************************************

Dear Mrs Gillan,

I would like to draw to your attention changes which are being planned for the Metropolitan line timetable which will impact negatively on your constituents in Amersham and Chesham.

I understand that from December 2011 London Underground (LU) intend to convert all off-peak services on the Amersham and Chesham branches of the Metropolitan line to call at all stations in place of the current limited stop fast services. LU say this will only add 7 minutes to the journey and that the service will be improved as all trains from Amersham and Chesham will continue to Aldgate. However, I would be grateful if you would raise objections with LU based on the following points:

1) The additional journey time may only be 7 minutes; however, this is on top of a journey time which is already unacceptably slow and compares very unfavourably with other railheads in the area. Berkhamsted and High Wycombe have journey times to London of around 30 minutes compared to Chesham's current 55 mins and Amersham's 50 mins. Why is this considered to be acceptable for Amersham and Chesham residents?

2) What customer consultation has been carried out ahead of deciding on this change. LU is a public body and, even if a statutory requirement does not exist, surely good practice would be to consult with customers and analysis undertaken to see what effect this will have on users before making such changes

3) Timings on the Chesham branch in particular are very tight owing to the single track between Chalfont & Latimer and Chesham. How will LU ensure that late train incidents do not increase and cause cancellations for Chesham travellers who have no alternative now that the Shuttle service has been withdrawn?

4) Which body is politically accountable for the input to train planning consultation on the Metropolitan line for services north of Moor Park? This area is outside the Greater London so clearly this does not come under the London Mayor, so who do the public in these areas have power of election over when wishing to ensure accountability for decisions taken which affect service provision?

I would be grateful if you would take these matters up with LU and look forward to receiving your response.

I am copying this email to the Buckinghamshire Examiner and to the amersham.org.uk web forum as I feel other Metropolitan line users will be interested in the reponse.

Yours sincerely

Ian Bartlett

[PeterC]

The obvious answer is to charge Chiltern fares to Marylebone and LUL fares to Baker Street and let the market decide. Personally I think a £7 off peak return with Oyster is a good trade off against journey time, those who want faster journeys are presumably happy to pay Wycombe or Beaconsfield prices (£13.50 off peak day return from Beaconsfield)

[hyposmurf]

Dear Forum Users,

Below is a copy of an email I have sent to Chery Gillan concerning the proposed, yet officially unannounced so far, changes to the Metropolitan Line timetable from December 2011. I'll let you know details of any reponse I receive.

Thanks, Ian

********************************************************

Dear Mrs Gillan,

I would like to draw to your attention changes which are being planned for the Metropolitan line timetable which will impact negatively on your constituents in Amersham and Chesham.

I understand that from December 2011 London Underground (LU) intend to convert all off-peak services on the Amersham and Chesham branches of the Metropolitan line to call at all stations in place of the current limited stop fast services. LU say this will only add 7 minutes to the journey and that the service will be improved as all trains from Amersham and Chesham will continue to Aldgate. However, I would be grateful if you would raise objections with LU based on the following points:

1) The additional journey time may only be 7 minutes; however, this is on top of a journey time which is already unacceptably slow and compares very unfavourably with other railheads in the area. Berkhamsted and High Wycombe have journey times to London of around 30 minutes compared to Chesham's current 55 mins and Amersham's 50 mins. Why is this considered to be acceptable for Amersham and Chesham residents?

2) What customer consultation has been carried out ahead of deciding on this change. LU is a public body and, even if a statutory requirement does not exist, surely good practice would be to consult with customers and analysis undertaken to see what effect this will have on users before making such changes

3) Timings on the Chesham branch in particular are very tight owing to the single track between Chalfont & Latimer and Chesham. How will LU ensure that late train incidents do not increase and cause cancellations for Chesham travellers who have no alternative now that the Shuttle service has been withdrawn?

4) Which body is politically accountable for the input to train planning consultation on the Metropolitan line for services north of Moor Park? This area is outside the Greater London so clearly this does not come under the London Mayor, so who do the public in these areas have power of election over when wishing to ensure accountability for decisions taken which affect service provision?

I would be grateful if you would take these matters up with LU and look forward to receiving your response.

I am copying this email to the Buckinghamshire Examiner and to the amersham.org.uk web forum as I feel other Metropolitan line users will be interested in the reponse.

Yours sincerely

Ian Bartlett

I totally agree with you on that one Ian, some good points raised there.Amusing we agree on an issue related to trains.

[ianbartlett]

I totally agree with you on that one Ian, some good points raised there.Amusing we agree on an issue related to trains.

Always good to find common ground!

I think what has really annoyed me about this is LU's dismissive attitude towards its customers. There has been absolutely no consultation or communication by them whatsoever. not even an attempt to present the reasoning behind it. I wonder if Angela Back (Met Line Manager) would like to come and address public meetings in Chesham and Amersham to explain this - at present it all looks rather arrogant and displays the worst aspects of the 'get what your given' approach adopted by some individuals in both the public and private sectors.

Another point worth noting is the waste of very expensive infrastructure this represents; two tracks from Moor Park down to Wembley Park lying pretty much idle throughout the day and weekends while passengers trundle tediously into London at average speeds not far off those of a bus; how much does this cost to maintain and does it represent a value-for-money use of taxpayer-funded assets? I wonder how passengers from Harrow feel about losing all their fast services from London. OK, it's only a couple more stops, but it's not a fast journey now compared to Chiltern or the Euston route and certainly isn't reliable.

Just thought I'd flag these points up if anyone else is thinking of writing to LU or Cheryl Gillan.

[Matthew (Admin/MPJ)]

On a related point, I am still tryig to find out more, but at

http://districtdave.proboards.com/ is a post (with follow ups)

"On my way home through Rickmansworth this evening, I noticed that the station staff had kindly put up a notice advising that as from 31/07/11, the 0744 and 0816 ex Amersham to Aldgate trains would be calling at all stations between Harrow and Baker Street.
"

Has anyone seen this or similar poster / announcements?

This is rather annoying, especially in August when the trains will be busy when Marylebone is closed.

[ianbartlett]

On a related point, I am still tryig to find out more, but at

http://districtdave.proboards.com/ is a post (with follow ups)

"On my way home through Rickmansworth this evening, I noticed that the station staff had kindly put up a notice advising that as from 31/07/11, the 0744 and 0816 ex Amersham to Aldgate trains would be calling at all stations between Harrow and Baker Street.
"

Has anyone seen this or similar poster / announcements?

This is rather annoying, especially in August when the trains will be busy when Marylebone is closed.

I saw that too. Again, LUL just doing what they please and stuff the passenger. By and large, I'm very supportive of LU as they have an almost impossible task in what they do, but this kind of behaviour is not only unacceptable, it's also plain ignorant and cannot be defended in any way.

Unless we want to see services continue to slide, I urge everyone to get writing to Cheryl Gillan; the Met line management will simply respond with a factual reasoning which avoids mention of their poor and unprofessional behaviour with regard to this.

This is not intended as an attack on the campaign against HS2, but the cynic in me wonders if, seeing all the HS2 debate in Amersham/Chesham, LUL thought they could indulge in bit of 'burying bad news'. It's in everyone's interest to make it very clear they cannot behave in this way so do please write, complain and kick up a stink!

[ianbartlett]

If anyone would like a copy of the letter to send to Cheryl Gillan, it's available for download as a Word document at:

www.bartlett57.org.uk/gillan.doc

You can also email it to the address given on the letter if that's more convenient.

Ian