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Changes To Train Services From December 2011


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#1 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:42 AM

The Bucks Examiner are reporting here that there are proposals to alter some train services in December. I have heard rumours of other changes (for example, all met trains stopping at Wembley Park, even in peak hours), but have not found any other details about this.

It appears off peak Chesham services will be all stations and "TfL also stated that Amersham will be getting an additional two trains per hour during peak times." The extra Amersham peak services I think are good, I feel Chesham & Amersham suffer from relatively poorer peak services compared to other towns on similar lines. The slower off peak Chesham services don't sound so good, but I wonder if the timetable would allow for Chesham travelers to easily change for a Chiltern or faster Met at say Rickmansworth which would then get to or from London faster than the direct Chesham service. If you missed a Chesham train at baker Street, you may be able to catch it up on a fatser following service, not as good as a direct train, but may be an option.
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#2 PeterC

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:21 PM

A spokesperson said: "London Underground will be bringing in a new timetable on the Metropolitan line in December to improve the reliability of the line and make it more robust, by reducing the congestion in the Rayners Lane area as well as improving the frequency for customers between Moor Park and Preston Road. The new timetable will better reflect customer demand across the branches providing the necessary capacity for all Metropolitan line customers."

Sounds like they are taking two trains per hour off the Uxbridge route and sending them to Amersham in the peak and Chesham off-peak. It remains to be seen if the 4 fasts per hour will be restored to Amersham off peak or if all stations to Moor Park will get hit.

I suspect that the additional Amershams will be compensated by Chiltern running an equal number of trains fast from Missenden.


PeterC aka Chilternbirder

#3 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:58 PM

I suspect that the additional Amershams will be compensated by Chiltern running an equal number of trains fast from Missenden.


There is a poster at Amersham station about a new time table for Chiltern from May 21 (I think). Most of it relates to the Wycombe line, but there is a small part to say more Chiltern trains will call at Rickmansworth and Amersham. Doing an online search for journeys from Amersham to Marylebone on 25 May, gives Chiltern services at

5:52
6:32
6:47
7:07
7:21
7:39
7:53
8:11 - is this one new - a slow fast train that now stops?
8:26
8:42 - is this one new - a slow fast train that now stops?
8:56

If the above is correct, it would seem strange if they reversed this from December. Actually, the other year Chiltern did propose stopping few trains at Amersham and other stations, but they were not allowed to do this after much opposition. if more Met services were provided instead, then I suppose they could try again.

Just for the record, threads about 2006 proposed changes here and here. Please don't add to these old threads!
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#4 PeterC

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:20 PM

From the Chiltern web site:

7. Improved Services from Amersham and Rickmansworth, weekdays:

There will be an additional 0707 Amersham to London Marylebone service created by adding an Amersham call into the 0640 Aylesbury to London Marylebone.
There will be an additional 0842 Amersham to London Marylebone service created by adding an Amersham call into the 0816 Aylesbury Vale Parkway to London Marylebone service
There will be an additional 0838 Rickmansworth to London Marylebone service created by adding a Rickmansworth call into the 0805 Aylesbury to London Marylebone.
We are confident that there are sufficient spare seats on these three trains to accommodate the passengers from the additional calls.

Also the 7:39 fast from Amersham will have one extra coach.

No change from Chalfont and Latimer except for the one extra call at Ricky. The extra Ricky service looks more useful for schoolkids than commuters as it doesn't arrive at Marylebone until 9:05


PeterC aka Chilternbirder

#5 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:41 PM

From the Chiltern web site:


[/font]


Thanks for finding that detail, I was basing what I thought were the changes from memory!
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#6 Bengley

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 07:21 PM

The Chesham service is fine as it is. An extra 7 minutes on top of an already long journey is a joke. Ugh, I really do hate their logic sometimes!

#7 PeterC

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 07:36 AM

From posts in other forums that are frequented by London Underground staff it looks as if they are taking two trains per hour out of the off peak timetable altogether so Croxley and Watford get their service cut and the Chesham trains go all stations to keep up the frequency south of Moor Park.

Other suggestions are that the Amershams will be all stations as well but both Chesham and Amersham trains will run through to Aldgate all day.
PeterC aka Chilternbirder

#8 Metman

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 09:02 PM

It looks like all Metropolitan trains will call at ALL stations outside the peak period! The Amersham-Aldgate service will therefore be all stations except in the rush hours.

#9 roob_the_doob

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 11:16 PM

It looks like all Metropolitan trains will call at ALL stations outside the peak period! The Amersham-Aldgate service will therefore be all stations except in the rush hours.

All the more reason to go from Marylebone...

#10 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 09:07 AM

All the more reason to go from Marylebone...


Not so good if one needs to go to Finchley Road!

It seems pressure from rail users in the Pinner and Wembley areas have meant the time table will change to benefit them.

The cynic in me wonders whetehr there is a deliberate policy to persuade Amersham / Chesham to Rickmansworth passengers off the Met trains and onto Chiltern. What with slower trains off peak and new trains with fewer seats!
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#11 Jinni

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 01:49 PM

'..policy to persuade Amersham / Chesham to Rickmansworth passengers off the Met trains and onto Chiltern...'


But there is a long term idea to electrify the Met all the way to Aylesbury.

see www.londontravelwatch.org.uk

Edited by PaulEden, 20 May 2011 - 11:07 PM.
fixed broken quote tags


#12 147

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 03:10 PM

How about Chiltern taking over the fast, and us not seeing any Mets north of Moor Park. I'm sure Boris has worked out the savings.

#13 David P

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 04:02 PM

How about Chiltern taking over the fast, and us not seeing any Mets north of Moor Park. I'm sure Boris has worked out the savings.


No way. Then we would have to pay Chiltern Line fares, as they do in Wycombe.
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#14 147

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 06:18 PM

No way. Then we would have to pay Chiltern Line fares, as they do in Wycombe.


Unfortunately I don't think that would worry Boris in the least. I can't see how you can run ATO (automatic Operating) without signals along with Chiltern Trains, unless of course I'm missing something.

#15 imule

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 07:32 PM

No way. Then we would have to pay Chiltern Line fares, as they do in Wycombe.


Although simplifying the line to a single operator sounds logical, doing so with either Chiltern or TfL would face a good few difficulties.

Chiltern: How to replace 4 Met trains / hour + 4 Chiltern trains / hour at peak with solely Chiltern only services, given the capacity limitations into Marylebone. Then you've got the Chesham branch and the short Rickmansworth platforms also to contend with, and a maximum of 6-car long trains on the rest of the line.

Met Line: The slow speed of the line is already a major source of complaint. I can't see how replacing 75 mph turbos with 62 mph S stock - with far fewer seats - is going to be acceptable to commuters along the line. I simply don't think there'd be sufficient seating capacity and I imagine most people would object to standing for the durations in question, never mind considerable longer commutes to boot.

I imagine we'll see the status quo remain for the foreseeable future. Yes it's an odd and somewhat inconvenient legacy of history, but that could probably be said about a lot of our rail infrastructure. And yes, at least get to benefit from cheaper fares than most lines!

#16 hyposmurf

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 09:48 PM

All the more reason to go from Marylebone...


Im afraid thats what alot of passengers will think to.Even more passengers on the chiltern line and empty running met line trains in off peak hours.

#17 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:29 AM

Some more details at www.chilternvoice.co.uk

Off peak may not be used by most, but for those traveling at the weekend and coming home later in the evening, this is not good news. I can't see there is the demand from Moor Park to Harrow for these extra stopping trains and it seems strange not to use the fast lines. I wonder if TFL just want to turn the Met into a metro service and stop its "express" roll it has had.

It will be interesting to see the timings of the Amersham Met trains in relation to the Marylebone services. At the moment they leave to close together.
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#18 hyposmurf

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 12:34 PM

Cutting cost?Seems a bit daft, it'll just mean more passengers pack on to the Chiltern Line and the met line runs even emptier in off peak.The journey takes long enough from London,adding in more stops is just going to be really annoying for passengers travelling off peak.

#19 ianbartlett

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:42 PM

Cutting cost?Seems a bit daft, it'll just mean more passengers pack on to the Chiltern Line and the met line runs even emptier in off peak.The journey takes long enough from London,adding in more stops is just going to be really annoying for passengers travelling off peak.


Can I urge everyone who feels this is negative change to contact the Metropolitan Line manager, Angela Back? Although this forum is a very good place to discuss such issues, we do need to let LUL management know if we feel this is unacceptable. Clearly,I do!

Thanks

#20 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 08:23 AM

Can I urge everyone who feels this is negative change to contact the Metropolitan Line manager, Angela Back? Although this forum is a very good place to discuss such issues, we do need to let LUL management know if we feel this is unacceptable. Clearly,I do!

Thanks


I am trying to find contact details for Angela Back to make sure my contact / email gets to her. If anyone has the correct contact details, please post here, or if I am successful in finding them I will also post here.

I have contacted London Travel Watch about this issue. They are actually attending a meeting today (Friday 17/06). their intial concern is for ALL passengers on the line, but they only have limited information at present.

If people are concerned, I suggest they make contact as well.
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#21 hyposmurf

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:26 PM

The Bucks Examiner could do with running a piece as its effects their readers and would hopefully make more people aware.

#22 PeterC

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:50 PM

The Bucks Examiner could do with running a piece as its effects their readers and would hopefully make more people aware.

Come on, they have to do things properly - ignore it until the last minute then have a nice big "shock horror" article!

Actually there was something about train times last week but I can't remember if it explicitly referred to this or if there was an article or just a reader's letter.
PeterC aka Chilternbirder

#23 hyposmurf

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:40 PM

Come on, they have to do things properly - ignore it until the last minute then have a nice big "shock horror" article!



:D Yes they do seem a bit slow with their news sometimes.

#24 ianbartlett

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:34 AM

Copy of letter sent to the Bucks Examiner:

'Dear Sir

London Underground plan to replace the off-peak fast service to London from Chesham and Amersham with an all-stations service. This will significantly worsen the service for daytime and weekend users.

I wonder if our MP, Cheryl Gillan, is taking any action to convince LU this is unacceptable? It is of concern that her negative stance on HS2 has significantly weakened her standing in the Government and undermined her influence on this issue which directly affects her constituents. Could we please hear from Mrs Gillan what action she intends to take?

Yours sincerely'

They may well decide not to publish as it raise awkward issues about their own HS2 stance, but I feel it is worth saying.

Where is Cheryl Gillan on this? Our own MP in the cabinet and she's completely invisible!

Ian


#25 PeterC

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:29 AM

Where is Cheryl Gillan on this? Our own MP in the cabinet and she's completely invisible!

Its called "localism", as TfL is controlled by the Mayor of London you need to take it up with your London Assembley member ..........
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#26 ianbartlett

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:32 AM

Its called "localism", as TfL is controlled by the Mayor of London you need to take it up with your London Assembley member ..........


Ah, of course! Silly me :)

#27 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 09:38 AM

Some details I have just received from london Travel Watch

"Further to our emails last weeks, I have a little more information for you. As you have pointed out there will be a slighted reduced off peak service from Watford and Amersham. However, these trains will now run through and not terminate at Baker Street.

The reasons behind this are due to swelling numbers of people at Farringdon station making the need to run an improved service. Transport for London believe this will improve reliability and have a better use of track capacity.

The trains to Amersham and Watford should see a slight improvement during peak hours.

At this time, I am unaware if these plans have been finalised."




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#28 Matthew (Admin/MPJ)

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 10:00 AM

A quick update, I asked if there would be consultation and received the reply

"I wouldn't wait for any consultation mainly because TfL do not have to consult. I would raise this with any supporting MP you have to help add weight to your argument."

For anyone interested, Cheryl Gillan's email address is

gillanc@parliament.uk
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#29 PeterC

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 10:35 AM

As you have pointed out there will be a slighted reduced off peak service from Watford and Amersham.As you have pointed out there will be a slighted reduced off peak service from Watford and Amersham.

Reduced from Amersham? I hope that is a typo as it is down to 2 Met trains per hour already.
PeterC aka Chilternbirder

#30 hyposmurf

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:15 PM

A quick update, I asked if there would be consultation and received the reply

"I wouldn't wait for any consultation mainly because TfL do not have to consult. I would raise this with any supporting MP you have to help add weight to your argument."

For anyone interested, Cheryl Gillan's email address is

gillanc@parliament.uk


Thanks for finding that out.I hardly use the met any more, but understand how annoying the changes will be to regular passengers.