54 replies to this topic

[Matthew (MPJ/Admin)]

According to

http://www.guardian....ps-harris-hoole

The new coffee shop on Sycamore Road is actually Tesco.

[Fran]

Interesting, but possibly somewhat hyped. All we actually know is that Tesco has a minority stake, so although it could be as much as 49%, it might be far less.

I remember a fuss a few years ago when McDonald's bought a large stake in Pret a Manger, but I haven't noticed any difference in what and how they provide since the change.

[MichaelHooley]

I find it hard to believe that Tesco - which presumably employs one or two marketing whiz-kids - could have possibly identified a need for yet another high street coffee shop!

[ThreeDaysGrace]

But claiming it's "family run" is a bit cheeky isn't it? I hate Tesco, I won't be going anywhere near the place

[Lucky]

I guess a lot of brands that aim at the artisan/ organic / family run markets are owned or backed by one of the big corporations (Rachel's Organic - "Founded by local farmers but now a subsidiary of French company Lactalis" / Innocent now 58% owned by Coca-Cola ... ) and their financial backing is obviously needed, but I like to know about it especially if a business claims they are "family run" when they are owned by Tesco, or if I think I'm supporting a British business/brand which is in fact owned by a multnational business.

[Delta]

http://www.marketing...3022565.article

[Bawbag]

This article seems to confirm the 49%/hands off approach.

http://www.independe...so-8027282.html

Had a peek in the building the other day, looks good.

[Fran]

I rarely go to coffee shops, but will be content to judge this one on its merits as a coffee shop, rather than its shareholders.

[Eaton]

I was talking to one of the shop owners today and apparently Mr Grant from the Entertainer, who owns the lease of this shop, is not a happy bunny because Tesco is one of the shareholders and it is not a family run business...

I was also told that the Amersham Branch will be the main shop of the chain and that they will send out their freshly cooked french loaves/baguettes etc to their other branches from Amersham. Not sure if this is true as I wouldn't have thought it would have been big enough plus the situation of the shop, virtually in front of the zebra crossing would presumably make it difficult for deliveries/collections on what is already a busy delivery area with the waitrose lorries regularly parked on the other side of the road.

If they decide to have an outside eating/drinking area (there is a box for a canopy to be installed so it looks likely that they are going to) it's going to be a bit tight to get past the seating area, the zebra crossing and for normal footfall to continue along that side of the road but presumably the local council planners have thought about that?

Oh and it opens on Saturday.

[Delta]

Ther's probably a tradesmans entrance round the back.

[ThreeDaysGrace]

I was talking to one of the shop owners today and apparently Mr Grant from the Entertainer, who owns the lease of this shop, is not a happy bunny because Tesco is one of the shareholders and it is not a family run business...

Why did he lease it to them then? Surely he did his research beforehand? Or maybe not! We may have a wander past there later on......and then go in to Cafe Africa instead

[Eaton]

Why did he lease it to them then? Surely he did his research beforehand? Or maybe not! We may have a wander past there later on......and then go in to Cafe Africa instead

He leased it to a family run business, so presumably no research!

[Fran]

The Entertainer is quite a big chain now, and Gary Grant has other business, property and charitable interests as well. Even though Amersham is his base, I doubt he personally vets all potential leasees.

[ITSMEAGAIN]

Regardless of who owns it the coffee may be good (though only a connoisseur would probably notice any difference and not the people who currently frequent Costa or Nero) but the tables and chairs are an extremely poor choice and a health hazard. I like rustic in the right places but these tables are from (very) rough hewn wood which can easily splinter and can't be wiped clean. Any spillage or food residue will be difficult if not impossible to remove. A great deal of money seems to have been spent on the equipment which hasn't been matched elsewhere.

[Alexd]

The new coffee shop actually serves really good coffee, seems like a nice place to visit and hopefully whatever food it sells will follow suit. Living round the corner I'm really pleased- it's a positive with some much doom and gloom in high st retail. So the owner of the entertainer made a mistake- well he is responsible for the demise of the high st with this misplaced idea that the shops should be family owned. The important thing for the existing shops that are family owned is that there are enough stores on the high street to draw customers in from the surrounding area ie not charity shops. Who cares who owns this new coffee shop/cafe- big businesses invest in smaller ones- its what this business can do for the card shop and the florist and the green grocers by bringing more people to the high street.

[David P]

The new coffee shop actually serves really good coffee, seems like a nice place to visit and hopefully whatever food it sells will follow suit. Living round the corner I'm really pleased- it's a positive with some much doom and gloom in high st retail. So the owner of the entertainer made a mistake- well he is responsible for the demise of the high st with this misplaced idea that the shops should be family owned. The important thing for the existing shops that are family owned is that there are enough stores on the high street to draw customers in from the surrounding area ie not charity shops. Who cares who owns this new coffee shop/cafe- big businesses invest in smaller ones- its what this business can do for the card shop and the florist and the green grocers by bringing more people to the high street.

Welome, Alexd. It's good to have a new member with some positive views, rather than all the 'glass half empty' around here.

[Zoom]

But claiming it's "family run" is a bit cheeky isn't it? I hate Tesco, I won't be going anywhere near the place

How any chain of coffee shops can be 'family run' is beyond me... on that basis Starbucks is 'family run' because its first chop in Seattle was run by a family...

[Sunday Night]

Well said Alexd.

Look at the turnaround in Old Amersham. It is the mix of brands and privately owned retail outlets, cafes, restaurants that have turned it from a potential ghost town into a thriving high street.

The options it offers not only attracts impulse purchases, it draws people from beyond Amersham. In someways it is the visiters that bring the greatest revenues to the privately owned business. They are more likely to visit more than their intended brand shop and to purchase refreshments. Look at Seasons, the Sweet Shop and The Elephant and Castle. Su Chase, All About Eve, Indulge. Each privately owned; all thriving.

Amersham on the Hill is failing to attract the brands - because the revenue to rent model does not match the outlined profit models (profit = business longevity). Starbucks moved out because it was not profitable. No other reason. Brands like Gap, Fat Face, Jo Jo Maman Bebe and Petit Bateau, outlets you would expect to find in a town such as Amersham (similar demographic to Beaconsfield and Marlow) haven't come for those very reasons.

However, if a brand was to come to the town and prove to attract new shoppers to the town, then these brands would start arriving and the opportunity for privately owned businesses to thrive alongside this would be greater.

I've been working with a chartered surveyors that has introduced a revenue to rent model. It is not rocket science and everyone wins: landlord, retailer, customer, town. For the landlord, the property is occupied and generating income. For the retailer, they pay rent in a proportion to revenues i.e. more affordble. The competition is greater, drawing more shoppers to the town and therefore to their outlet. For the customer, more retail choice and therefore less inclination to travel or to shop online. For the town a thriving high street, improved environment, greater future opportunity.

Like it or not, brands create opportunities, as do hairdressers(!). Old Amersham is a perfect example of how brands and haridressers draw people and therefore revenue into a town. Let's be positive!

[Zoom]

Isn't Amersham quite a bit smaller than Beaconsfield or Marlow... ? Wouldn't that explain why the brands you mentioned don't come to Amersham - Gap, Fat Face, etc.... I would have thought they'd need a higher volume than Amersham could sustain, whereas the brands and independents in Old Amersham are well suited to its low volume high value situation.

I just don't think the units in Top Amersham are large enough to attract larger brands... the unit size versus rent versus business volume versus footfall demographic just doesn't add up...

[Sunday Night]

Zoom, that is not the case.

The population of the towns is currently, according to published statistics, approx:

• Amersham 21,700 (excluding the residents of the surrounding villages e.g. Hyde Heath, Coleshill, Winchmore Hill, Penn, Great Missenden etc – all of whom shop in Amersham).
• Marlow 18,000
• Beaconsfield 12,000

The housing in Amersham is far denser.
Marlow does benefit from tourist traffic.

The retail units in each town are of an average equal size, Beaconsfield slightly smaller.

The majority of the leases on the retail units in Old Amersham are held by the same company, Philip Marsh Collins Deung, which is Beaconsfield based.

The issue, I understand, it had with letting units in the old town was that the buildings are listed and therefore alterations to the interiors are restricted, as is external signage. These restrictions traditionally go against the policy of many brands, whose identities are as much the layout of the stores and the fittings as is the corporate ID.

PMCD must therefore have had to change its pitch to these brands to attract them. The landlord(s) in Amersham on the Hill have perhaps not. Ultimately, it is the landlord who controls which brands take over a unit. It is a simple case of economics - price discounts all else.

It is possible that in these depressed times that PMCD is being more realistic with rents and has even introduced a similar pricing model to that which I mentioned earlier; rent in relation to turnover in order to fill the units. More filled units; the more attractive units are to other retailers.

The brands will know exactly how much revenue is earned in the town e.g. via online shopping and loyalty stats and choose to forgo the standard shop fittings if it can “guarantee” profits against favourable lease terms. Take a look in Joules. It is never empty. It probably knew from online sales that its revenue opportunities are good!

The spend-per-head in Amersham, and its surrounds, is well above the regional average. There is very high disposable income and lots of families willing to spend. You only need to look at the average family and they are dressed top-to-toe in Gap, (Mini) Boden and Joules. They are just going elsewhere or online to purchase their wares.

The units in new Amersham, are, you could argue, of better size and more flexible for these brands, but perhaps Old Amersham better matches the "retail experience" the resident brands wish to portray? Who knows? Something is attracting these brands to Old Amersham and something or someone is stopping them from locating to Amersham on the Hill.

BTW, I have no interest in PMCD, but I have watched the struggle to populate the retail units in both towns over the last five years and now witness the complete change in environment and opportunity the Old Town presents to the people who live, work and visit it.

Tesco owned or not, the new café brings an alternative option, employment and therefore an asset to the residents and visitors of and to Amersham on the Hill and should be supported positively. Whilst not to everyone’s taste (nothing ever will be), its design and layout has obviously been thought about. Very relaxed and “family owned”. I love the mix of seating and the option to read the papers and magazines provided. Other might too.

Let’s wish the café and all the other shops in Amersham well and hope that Amersham on the Hill will once again become a thriving community. Let’s be honest, there is more often than not doubt and criticism thrown at the high street on this forum - even before the doors have opened!

[Bawbag]

Thanks for the insights, Sunday Night

I agree this new place isn't a bad thing for the town.

When looking at moving into the area I was surprised by the relatively poor range of shops on offer in Top Amersham compared to Beaconsfield etc.

I put it down to Old Amersham sucking in the boutique-type places, meaning the relatively unattractive (literally, as well as figuratively) Sycamore Road gets left with the coffee shops, hairdressers, charity shops etc.

The poor mix of shops is exacerbated by the endlessly puzzling lack of pubs 'up the hill', meaning the atmosphere is more of a new town high street or open air shopping arcade, rather than the main shopping street in an affluent town.

[Zoom]

Very interesting... I've learnt some useful info As far as top Amersham is concerned I don't really have too much of a problem with the mix of shops there... a little too many supermarket stores, a few more speciality stores might be good and I quite like the coffee shops

[David P]

I'm confused. Surely M&S, Waitrose, WHSmith, the Entertainer and (whisper it quietly) Tesco are 'brands'? Not only that, they are big brands that everyone knows and that are far more likely to attract shoppers and increase footfall than Gap, Fat Face, Jo Jo Maman Bebe and Petit Bateau. I've only ever heard of one of them and while they may attract a few well-off shoppers I'm pretty sure that, even if all of them arrived, they would have a minimal effect compared with the arrival of Sainsbury (if and when that happens).

[Sunday Night]

You are right David P, they are "brands", but I believe we were on a subject beyond grocery outlets. There is a need for more than food and household goods in a town the size of Amersham. Also, for note, Waitrose and M&S in Amersham are convenience stores and therefore have limited stock and are unlikely to draw footfall from beyond the town.

What does bring people to Amersham is Tesco (your are very right!) in the Old Town (I believe it is the UK's highest revenue generating store)..... and, as the model in Old Amersham has prooved, clothes and shoes.

Having children and friends with children in Amersham, I can assure you there is a market for Gap, Fat Face, Boden, Jo Jo Maman Bebe and Petit Bateau, as well as Tesco and Primark..... look at what they are wearing! I think we need to agree to disagree on this one!

[Zoom]

I too was referring to brands outside groceries - clothes, gifts, electrical, home, sport/leisure, books. It is the mid-range non-grocery high street brands that seem missing from Amersham - not that I want the high street flooded with those kind of stores.

Are far as Waitrose and M&S are concerned I don't think you're right to describe them as convenience stores.... they are pretty well stocked with a full range.... I would guess that M&S is about the same size as M&S food departments have always been. Waitrose is smaller than a full size Waitrose but it seems to have a full range albeit a smaller number of each range/line. Tesco is much more of a convenience store (limited range).

[Zoom]

The topic reached BBC Radio4 You and Yours programme today....

Here's a link to the programme... it included a Tesco rep being interviewed about it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01m182z

[Fran]

I can't listen to the programme now (anyone notice how far into the programme the item is?), but the Tesco aspect seems like a storm in a coffee cup to me.

If the founding family had sought investment from Dragons' Den, I expect people would applaud them, but because it's Tesco, it's perceived as a bad thing. And yes, I know all the arguments about Tesco taking over and homogenising high streets, but they're not homogenising in this instance (it's a NEW brand) and they may not even be taking over (the family may still make most of the decisions).

There's no shame in keeping separate brands, with separate identities: that's why Pret a Manger wasn't plastered with golden arches when McDonalds bought a large stake in the business, and why Innocent drinks aren't sold in Coke bottles.

[Sunday Night]

Right on the nail Fran. I didn't even dare go down the VC route! I bored myself trying, and quite possibly failing, to explain the economics of the high street and te value that each retailer brings to the other!

Very few businesses are set up without financial backing, and to get that backing in this financial climate, they must have a very viable business plan. Good luck to them. I will certainly be supporting them.

[Zoom]

For the people who want to start a coffee shop chain and have a brand idea, taking tesco's investment is a great idea when they'd find it hard to raise the money elsewhere in this climate.

For Tesco I suspect this is about them diversifying outside their core business because they are reaching saturation in the grocery and even non-grocery business within their own branded stores and need to find other revenue sources...

...nvesting in other people's businesses as a way of diversifying is good from their point of view... they can pick and choose their investments, it doesn't dilute or muddy their core brand, it is seedcorn money which may pay off and if it doesn't they haven't lost much, it transfers the risk to other people, and it enables them to 'own' more of the high street ie increases their high street market share.

It is this latter point which is the only potential area for criticism... if Tesco "buy" more and more of the high street either through their own brand or through other brands then at what point does it get referred to the competition commission on monopoly grounds ? And while it may not be monopolistic on a national basis that doesn't mean that it couldn't be monopolistic and anti-competitive on a local level.

But people shouldn't get so hung up on Tesco alone about this. There are other large retail groups that own and operate through multiple brands on the high street and nobody has been particularly bothered about it. And deploying scale in a monopolistic fashion is a criticism that has been levelled at Starbucks and look how long they lasted in Amersham...

At the end of the day, if people like the coffee, the food, the atmosphere, the service and the staff then it will do well... if not then it will probably fold.

[Matthew (MPJ/Admin)]

With all the coffee shops and the arrival of M&S, Waitrose and W H Smith, Sycamore Road is much busier now than it was several years ago. About 10 years ago you could walk up the shops on a Saturday afternoon and the place would be deserted, its not that bad now.