65 replies to this topic

[a t o m i c]

I guess that's a minority view.

Well, I'm in that same minority then. M&S call napkins 'serviettes' - just about says it all for the place if you ask me...

[Kiff]

What's wrong with calling serviettes "serviettes" ? We've always called them that in my family.

[Fran]

What's wrong with calling serviettes "serviettes" ?

Well if you really want to debate that, it deserves a whole topic about linguistic distinctions between regions and classes etc! And very interesting (and contentious?) that would probably be.

For now, suffice it to say that for many people, the word serviette is a social marker in the same category as toilet, pardon and settee.

[Kiff]

So "serviette" is considered posh ? I'm even more confused now Fran !! Toilet/bog, pardon/what?, settee/sofa makes the words you mention posh, lavatory/toilet, sorry?/pardon, couch/setee makes then seem common....

I don't want to debate it, I want to understand why calling a napkin a serviette or a serviette a napkin has anything to do with a shop's credentials. I think I use both terms... Is serviette a bit Vicky Pollard and napkin a bit Tim Nice-But-Dim ? Or is serviette a bit Mrs. Bucket (pronounced Boo-kaay) from Keeping Up Appearances ? Someone enlighten me !

[Fran]

So "serviette" is considered posh ?

No - quite the reverse!

I want to understand why calling a napkin a serviette or a serviette a napkin has anything to do with a shop's credentials.

I guess it's for atomic to answer that, since he pointed it out (but I assume he cited it as an example of their declining standards)...

[Kiff]

That's very very Mrs. Bucket (pronounced Boo-kaay) from Keeping Up Appearances if it's true then.

[Zoom]

Very funny development in this thread.... reminds me of the debates my wife and I have about what to call meals (dinner/supper) !

[Fran]

reminds me of the debates my wife and I have about what to call meals (dinner/supper) !

I think breakfast is the only meal name that is unambiguous in all circumstances - though what it comprises will vary widely, so even then the consensus is not very useful!

[Zoom]

The mention of breakfast takes me off on another line concerning 'class' oddities...

Serving oneself at breakfast
Breakfast being the only meal during which you can read at the table
Cutting slices of bread/toast with a knife but breaking bread rolls with fingers
Spreading butter on slices of bread but not on bread rolls
Eating/drinking soup
etc...

I think the most bizarre one I've come across is eating aparagus with your fingers !!

[a t o m i c]

No - quite the reverse!
I guess it's for atomic to answer that, since he pointed it out (but I assume he cited it as an example of their declining standards)...

Not at all - I don't think M&S has declining standards, merely delusions of grandeur!

That's very very Mrs. Bucket (pronounced Boo-kaay) from Keeping Up Appearances if it's true then.

Go and have a look for yourself if you don't believe me, I finally understood why I never really 'got' M&S Food when I noticed.

[Kiff]

I believe you a t o m i c

[Alan]

So "serviette" is considered posh ? I'm even more confused now Fran !! Toilet/bog, pardon/what?, settee/sofa makes the words you mention posh, lavatory/toilet, sorry?/pardon, couch/setee makes then seem common....

I don't want to debate it, I want to understand why calling a napkin a serviette or a serviette a napkin has anything to do with a shop's credentials. I think I use both terms... Is serviette a bit Vicky Pollard and napkin a bit Tim Nice-But-Dim ? Or is serviette a bit Mrs. Bucket (pronounced Boo-kaay) from Keeping Up Appearances ? Someone enlighten me !

Kiff

I'm inclined to agree, the old divides have become less significant, and how do we define class etc, when there are many working class people among the supper rich, some legal, some not, but some could buy what was once concidered posh.

[Fran]

I'm inclined to agree, the old divides have become less significant... some could buy what was once concidered posh.

I agree that the old class distinctions are not as entrenched and immutable as in the past, and I think that some of the rules of etiquette are bizarre. Nevertheless, for as long as there are people with power and influence who value such distinctions (however much you might wish they didn't) it can be advantageous to know what the "rules" are. And for those people, the fact that some more lowly individuals are able to buy "posh" stuff is not (and never been) sufficient to make the purchaser upper class or "one of us".

[a t o m i c]

I agree that the old class distinctions are not as entrenched and immutable as in the past,

Don't worry, our collapsing social mobility is bringing back the class system in a BIG way! Watch out for those plutocrats, they get everywhere.

[Fran]

Don't worry, our collapsing social mobility is bringing back the class system in a BIG way! Watch out for those plutocrats, they get everywhere.

Well you could argue that a plutocracy is inevitable in a capitalist society. However, it isn't necessarily related to the sort of class system that is based primarily on heredity.

[PaulEden]

class system that is based primarily on heredity.

If I remember my sociology 'O' level correctly - and it's entirely possible I don't - ones class is defined by the occupation of their parents. There was a list of occupations that were defined occupations.

At the time, much to the my enjoyment of my sociology teacher (he was as red as they come) teacher had just been moved from middle to lower-middle class.

Edited by PaulEden, 24 May 2007 - 07:17 AM.
to make sense

[a t o m i c]

Well you could argue that a plutocracy is inevitable in a capitalist society. However, it isn't necessarily related to the sort of class system that is based primarily on heredity.

Only inveitable in a capitalist society that has little or no social mobility. If we let go of the meritocratic ideal, we'll all be the poorer for it.

[Zoom]

We were talking the other day about the grammar schools and selection debate etc... and one of my colleagues had been reading a report that concluded that social mobility (ie movement between classes) was at its lowest level ever and was getting worse (or better depending on your point of view !).

[Speedy]

Maybe i'll go into m&s and give them my commoner touch....INNIT

[a t o m i c]

Kiff

I'm inclined to agree, the old divides have become less significant, and how do we define class etc, when there are many working class people among the supper rich, some legal, some not, but some could buy what was once concidered posh.

Maybe this is the root of it - M&S aren't trying to offer high quality food, they are trying to offer POSH food, a distinction that only works if you consider good quality things to BE posh. It certainly explains some of their extraordinary prices - they charge a fortune for a salad nicoise because it's aspirational, and being needlessly expensive makes it more so.

[Alan]

Maybe this is the root of it - M&S aren't trying to offer high quality food, they are trying to offer POSH food, a distinction that only works if you consider good quality things to BE posh. It certainly explains some of their extraordinary prices - they charge a fortune for a salad nicoise because it's aspirational, and being needlessly expensive makes it more so.

Sadly many of use attempt to aspire to be better, as if that matters, when being what we are is the outcome, we have moved from a society that worked together to a twitchy curtain group.

[Yorkieboy]

Now I'm not saying I've never shopped at M&S food store, I have and will probably do so again on the basis of my body demanding food. However having spent many years living in "The Smoke" and in particular during to mid-late 80's early 90's, when at that time their food (particularly ready-meals) was with some justification, seen to be rather up market and of a better quality and selection than Tesco/Sainsbury et al. Yuppies loved to say they'd only had time to grab an M&S ready meal for dinner/supper (delete appropriately as class dictates). That was then, this is now. My more recent experiences of their range is that it really hasn't improved much high price, mediocre quality, whereas the opposition have in the meantime of course caught up.
Expensive?- certainly. POSH?- maybe. Pretentious?-still.

[K&P]

Oh dear! As a classless Aussie by birth, this thread really worries me...

OK? What does one call a kangaroo, then?

And a damper?

A dillybag?

Please let me know, as when I am promenading Sycamore Avenue, with my 'roo, bread and rucksack, I'll have to be able to chat with y'all, dontchaknow?

[Alan]

Oh dear! As a classless Aussie by birth, this thread really worries me...

OK? What does one call a kangaroo, then?

And a damper?

A dillybag?

Please let me know, as when I am promenading Sycamore Avenue, with my 'roo, bread and rucksack, I'll have to be able to chat with y'all, dontchaknow?

I had kangaroo from Tescos many years back and found it a good meat along with Ostrich.

[K&P]

I had kangaroo from Tescos many years back and found it a good meat along with Ostrich.

Yes, Alan, but what did you 'name' it?

[Alan]

Yes, Alan, but what did you 'name' it?

Yummi or was it yummi the hairy***************

[Carl La Fong]

Oh dear! As a classless Aussie by birth, this thread really worries me...

I suppose you'll be trying to find a local restaurant that serves pie floaters.

[Alan]

Don't worry, our collapsing social mobility is bringing back the class system in a BIG way! Watch out for those plutocrats, they get everywhere.

You did Sociology.

[a t o m i c]

You did Sociology.

Nope.

[Tallguy]

Tesco in Amersham used to sell 'Roo and Ostrich. Both are nice tasty meats but I've not seen either in there for a while.